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Trade proposal Montreal - Vancouver

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Old
08-13-2004, 10:36 AM
  #1
NewHabsEra*
 
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Trade proposal Montreal - Vancouver

To Montreal: Bertuzzi

To Vancouver: Markov, Zednik, Bulis, 2005 first pick

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Old
08-13-2004, 10:47 AM
  #2
NFITO
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As much as I am a Bertuzzi and Canuck fan, I would probably do that trade....

but I think that's overpayment for what Bertuzzi's market value is right now.

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Old
08-13-2004, 10:49 AM
  #3
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Habs overpay...

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Old
08-13-2004, 10:56 AM
  #4
x-bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
To Montreal: Bertuzzi

To Vancouver: Markov, Zednik, Bulis, 2005 first pick
No way we (Habs) make that trade.

Markov is a good #2 defencmen on a decent team.
Zednik is a first or second line winger depending on the team.
Bulis is a great 2 way 3rd line player.
and
a first round pick in a deap draft???

This is gotta be one of the worst trade proposals I've seen (no offence)

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Old
08-13-2004, 11:18 AM
  #5
Blane Youngblood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob
No way we (Habs) make that trade.

Markov is a good #2 defencmen on a decent team.
Zednik is a first or second line winger depending on the team.
Bulis is a great 2 way 3rd line player.
and
a first round pick in a deap draft???

This is gotta be one of the worst trade proposals I've seen (no offence)
Honestly, as a Canucks fan, I probably wouldn't do this deal because none of our holes are filled. The most attractive thing to me is the first round pick. We don't really need anymore 3rd liners (Chubarov, Linden, Cooke), Zednik only fills the second line RW job while creating a hole at first line RW, and Markov while good, isn't exactly what we need (Sopel, Jovo, Salo, and Ohlund can all provide offensive game from the d). The deal would make our top 6 forwareds extremely small (especially if Cooke moves up to fill Bert's role) and thus there's no way I would make it, even though I think the assets being offered are worth more or the same as Bertuzzi.

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Old
08-13-2004, 11:24 AM
  #6
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Honestly, as a Canucks fan, I probably wouldn't do this deal because none of our holes are filled. The most attractive thing to me is the first round pick. We don't really need anymore 3rd liners (Chubarov, Linden, Cooke), Zednik only fills the second line RW job while creating a hole at first line RW, and Markov while good, isn't exactly what we need (Sopel, Jovo, Salo, and Ohlund can all provide offensive game from the d). The deal would make our top 6 forwareds extremely small (especially if Cooke moves up to fill Bert's role) and thus there's no way I would make it, even though I think the assets being offered are worth more or the same as Bertuzzi.
deals aren't made in a vaccumn though.

I agree with you that this wouldn't fill any holes we have on our team.

but it gives us some great assets to make other moves.

getting Markov and that 1st rounder, allows us to deal Sopel with something from the future - like Koltsov - to get another top 6 right winger (like an O'Neill)...

and the contracts moving give us more flexibility as well... could probably even have the budget to sign a UFA right winger like Murray dropping Bertuzzi's $7mill/yr contract, and replacing it with Zednik's under $3mill...

that's why I would do this deal... gives us assets to make other deals to improve our overall lineup.

of course this trade would never be on the table... too much for Montreal to give up considering the drop in Bertuzzi's market value over the past several months.

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Old
08-13-2004, 11:24 AM
  #7
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As a Habs fan, I wouldn't do that deal, especially now, Bertuzzi's value is low right now

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Old
08-13-2004, 11:28 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
To Montreal: Bertuzzi

To Vancouver: Markov, Zednik, Bulis, 2005 first pick
The only player coming back in this proposed deal that could make us "significantly better" (which, I assume, is the point of making most trades) would be Zednik. I am not saying this isn't a fair offer but i just don't see how this helps the Canucks...unless the Canucks simply want to move Bertuzzi and his "troubles". The first rounder is very attractive to, although to be fair, I think it will be a bottom 10 pick this year (I think Montreal has improved enough to make that kind of noise next year...even with Bonk... ).

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Old
08-13-2004, 11:35 AM
  #9
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Put Away The First Pic And It Is Better

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Old
08-13-2004, 11:42 AM
  #10
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH4THECUP
Put Away The First Pic And It Is Better
agree value wise it would be...

but then the canucks wouldn't be tempted enough to make the move.

I think that they'd do it if you put away Bulis.... because that would give them the assets they need to make the other moves needed to fill their holes.

as already said this deal doesn't address the holes in the canucks lineup right now... what it would do is give the canucks assets to make other moves to fill those holes (with $$ dropping off the payroll as one of those assets)...

but value wise, it's overpayment... although anything less than overpayment wouldn't have the canucks interested in making any moves anyways.

if the canucks could get a team to overpay to get Bertuzzi, I'd do it... reason being that we don't have a lot of tradable assets right now, and some holes we need to address in our lineup - also the salary and payroll make it difficult to address those holes through free agency - so we're kinda double-screwed: don't have the assets right now to fill holes, and don't have the $$ to acquire UFAs to fill those holes instead of using assets.

a trade like this would address that.

but again, if it's not over payment ie, a team giving up what Bertuzzi was worth a year ago before his mental breakdown... then the canucks are better off just holding onto Bert and letting him rebound and increase his value with his on-ice play.

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Old
08-13-2004, 12:16 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
To Montreal: Bertuzzi

To Vancouver: Markov, Zednik, Bulis, 2005 first pick
This propsal overestimates the value of Bertuzzi, the Canadiens' need to get bigger and underestimates the value the Canucks would be receiving. Not being a Bertuzzi fan, I would not want him on my team, however, if someone who appreciated him more than I do , gave up more than Zednik and a 1st round pick, I would be surprised...good defencemen are hard to come by and Markov is a good defenceman. Bulis is a strong role player and would require a second player of significance to be part of this trade.

And, I have not factored the judicial problem Bertuzzi has ahead of him...this is way too expensive...even Gord Stellick wouldn't make this trade!

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Old
08-13-2004, 12:29 PM
  #12
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Bert is worth nothing right now and the Nucks are stuck with him . Even if he was playing... I still think the Habs would overpay ! I know Bertuzzi is a great hockey player but in a court house ... he`s not much help for the hockey club who owns him !
I would be very surprised if Bob Gainey traded away his first round pick in 2005 ;
with the lockout ... the NHL still asen`t decided what`s going to appen concerning the draft ! Some posters were discussing in a tread a few weeks back that a mega draft loterie including all 30 teams would be a probability ... SIDNEY CROSBY may be ! Dreamer I`m just a little dreamer

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Old
08-13-2004, 12:35 PM
  #13
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Wow, that's one hell of an overpayment. That's the kind of deal that you base on for a 1st round 1st pick. That's just crazy.

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Old
08-13-2004, 12:37 PM
  #14
El Wama
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Put away Bulis... and Go on

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Old
08-13-2004, 12:46 PM
  #15
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I wouldn't even do Zednik for Bertuzzi straight up at this point. We just signed Zednik, a 25 goals scorer, to a 3 years contract to more than a fair deal and you'd trade him away for a winger that is having legal issues, just came out of an off year last season and demands about 4 millions more per season?

That's just insanity.

Oh and before someone claims I'm anti-Bertuzzi for what he did, guess again, he's my favorite player in the league but I wouldn't ever touch a deal even remotely similar to what was posted in this thread.

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Old
08-13-2004, 12:59 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob
No way we (Habs) make that trade.

Markov is a good #2 defencmen on a decent team.
Zednik is a first or second line winger depending on the team.
Bulis is a great 2 way 3rd line player.
and
a first round pick in a deap draft???

This is gotta be one of the worst trade proposals I've seen (no offence)
I think you underrate Bertuzzi's value...

To me Bertuzzi is the best powerfoward ever with great hockey skills, exactly what we lack... Add to that we are rather weak on the left side even with Hossa and Higgins growing up in the depth chart... Bertuzzi provide us size, leadership and skills while we replace Markov by either Beauchemin or Hainsey... Although Markov is a great puckmover, reliable defensively having good offensive vision, he still did'nt prove he can be an effective quarterback on the PP!

Zednik is in reality a very good second line winger when he is hot and play with fire, he does'nt have the pure skills to be a real first line winger and when he tends to rely only on his skills he becomes less effective... But I do think he would play at the best of his capacities with the Nucks, a team playing with top intensity level.

I cant see Bulis fitting in the Habs line-up anymore since I think our 3 first lines are gonna be offensively minded and that a kid like plekanec can play a bigger role to me... I personnally think Bulis' efficiency is overrated... He was effective with a guy like Juneau, there was a great complementarity between them but now you have Bonk, more offensive and still can play a nice 2-way game...

Our next first round pick is gonna be low, I expect us in the top 10 of the league.

This deal would make us a better team since we have great prospects in the system to replace Zednik and Bulis... Beauchemin wont be as effective as Markov but I'm extremmely high on this kid...

Bertuzzi Koivu Perezhogin

Hossa Ribeiro Ryder

Higgins Bonk Plekanec

Goon Begin Ward

extra: Sundstrom

Souray Komisarek

Beauchemin or Hainsey/Rivet

Bouillon/Brisebois

Dont forget Kostitsyn... Could be NHL ready at some point this year.

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Old
08-13-2004, 01:16 PM
  #17
x-bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
I think you underrate Bertuzzi's value...

To me Bertuzzi is the best powerfoward ever with great hockey skills, exactly what we lack... Add to that we are rather weak on the left side even with Hossa and Higgins growing up in the depth chart... Bertuzzi provide us size, leadership and skills while we replace Markov by either Beauchemin or Hainsey... Although Markov is a great puckmover, reliable defensively having good offensive vision, he still did'nt prove he can be an effective quarterback on the PP!

Zednik is in reality a very good second line winger when he is hot and play with fire, he does'nt have the pure skills to be a real first line winger and when he tends to rely only on his skills he becomes less effective... But I do think he would play at the best of his capacities with the Nucks, a team playing with top intensity level.

I cant see Bulis fitting in the Habs line-up anymore since I think our 3 first lines are gonna be offensively minded and that a kid like plekanec can play a bigger role to me... I personnally think Bulis' efficiency is overrated... He was effective with a guy like Juneau, there was a great complementarity between them but now you have Bonk, more offensive and still can play a nice 2-way game...

Our next first round pick is gonna be low, I expect us in the top 10 of the league.

This deal would make us a better team since we have great prospects in the system to replace Zednik and Bulis... Beauchemin wont be as effective as Markov but I'm extremmely high on this kid...

Bertuzzi Koivu Perezhogin

Hossa Ribeiro Ryder

Higgins Bonk Plekanec

Goon Begin Ward

extra: Sundstrom

Souray Komisarek

Beauchemin or Hainsey/Rivet

Bouillon/Brisebois

Dont forget Kostitsyn... Could be NHL ready at some point this year.
I still don't think that its a good trade. we would be filing one whole and making 3 others. Not to smart.

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Old
08-13-2004, 01:23 PM
  #18
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maybe if the Nucks would throw a 4th liner or 5-6th d-man in there, I would do it
I would take Bertuzzi any day, even though he did that non-sense last year, he is one of the best power forwards in the league, Habs need a player like him, we can replace Bulis, not sure about Markov, and Bertuzzi is by far the better player between him and Zednik

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Old
08-13-2004, 01:30 PM
  #19
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although obviously it hurts losing our best physical presence at forward.... that deal would be too good to pass up.

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08-13-2004, 01:32 PM
  #20
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There's no way I want to see us trade our 1st rounder. Next year could be one of the best 1st rounds in the last 10 years, the top 10 or so is looking great. I'd love to get Bert on the team, but losing that 1st round pick would hurt. I don't see it happening as the Nucks would be crazy to move him.

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Old
08-13-2004, 01:49 PM
  #21
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Bertuzzi is the type of player habs have been looking for, for a while, big, physical, scoring top 6 forward. But with Bertuzzi's current status it's kinda risky, he will eventually come back, but will he ever be the same, who knows the whole thing may have affected him a bit, so theres a few question marks there and in the deal we gave a up a good amount so as a Habs fan i'd rather just stay on the safe side and not do a deal such as that.

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Old
08-13-2004, 01:49 PM
  #22
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I love Bert but to give up Markov and a 1st and then Zednik and Bulis sorry way to rich for my blood. Houle should of said yes to Burke when he offered Bert straight up for linden a couple of years ago

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Old
08-13-2004, 01:56 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
Wow, that's one hell of an overpayment. That's the kind of deal that you base on for a 1st round 1st pick. That's just crazy.
Well, minus Markov that's exactly what Washington gave us for Linden

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Old
08-13-2004, 01:56 PM
  #24
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No thank you.

As stated before, it does not fill any of the Canucks holes.

 
Old
08-13-2004, 02:01 PM
  #25
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike The Wall
I love Bert but to give up Markov and a 1st and then Zednik and Bulis sorry way to rich for my blood. Houle should of said yes to Burke when he offered Bert straight up for linden a couple of years ago
I don't know if I buy that rumour at all...

there were lots of offers for Bert that Burke wouldn't touch several years back (before Bert broke out).... and many of the rumours had teams giving up much more than what we gave up for Linden.

The Canucks didn't give up much for Linden in the end (a 1st round pick and a 3rd I believe, but we get a 2nd rounder back with Linden, and the Caps eating more of his salary as well, while the Habs were already eating some of his salary - combined the two teams ate $2.5mill of his $4.5mill/yr deal).

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