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Old
09-21-2011, 12:14 PM
  #751
Winroba
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Originally Posted by JRZ DVLS View Post
You guys expect Pinner to stay with the big club on the fourth line? Kid was great at RIT and scored a ton of clutch goals there. He was always an energy guy, but had the scoring touch to boot. Hoping for the Tiger connection there...
We're not sure yet, there is a lot of talent he has to beat out to get a spot (Oreskovich, Volpatti, Ebbett, Nolan etc)

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09-21-2011, 12:26 PM
  #752
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He was/is only signed as a "band-aid" until Raymond is healthy AND ready to play 2nd line minutes. I'd be a bit more worried if Sturm was *the* solution to Kesler's "Helicopter Line".
I find it funny that some people actually believe that, no offense. Raymond didn't play particularly well last season, he looked a lot more like a 3rd line out there than he did a top 6 forward. Sturm would have been signed whether Raymond was injured or not, as we need someone who can score and score consistantly. Sturm has been a model of consistancy in terms of goal scoring over his career. His 7 out of 9 20+ goal seasons proves that, with him being injured the other 2 seasons.

If Sturm plays well and stays healthy, he will likely hold that top 6 LW spot for most of this season.

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09-21-2011, 12:38 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I find it funny that some people actually believe that, no offense. Raymond didn't play particularly well last season, he looked a lot more like a 3rd line out there than he did a top 6 forward. Sturm would have been signed whether Raymond was injured or not, as we need someone who can score and score consistantly. Sturm has been a model of consistancy in terms of goal scoring over his career. His 7 out of 9 20+ goal seasons proves that, with him being injured the other 2 seasons.

If Sturm plays well and stays healthy, he will likely hold that top 6 LW spot for most of this season.
He didn't (neither did Sammy). But he's only turned 26 a few days ago - it's not like players develop in a 'straight line". I wouldn't 'write-him off' just yet for that 2nd line spot.

I wasn't all that keen on the Sturm signing - regardless of our injury situation (at least at his cap hit). Hopefully he'll prove me wrong.

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09-21-2011, 12:38 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I find it funny that some people actually believe that, no offense. Raymond didn't play particularly well last season, he looked a lot more like a 3rd line out there than he did a top 6 forward. Sturm would have been signed whether Raymond was injured or not, as we need someone who can score and score consistantly. Sturm has been a model of consistancy in terms of goal scoring over his career. His 7 out of 9 20+ goal seasons proves that, with him being injured the other 2 seasons.

If Sturm plays well and stays healthy, he will likely hold that top 6 LW spot for most of this season.
I think the key is that there will be lots of competition for top 6 time. The Sedins, Kesler and Burrows have a lock on four spots and the other two will be between Samuelsson, Higgins, Raymond, Sturm and possibly even Hodgson once everyone is healthy. All of those players could also be moved to the third line if they struggle offensively. And all of that assumes that no trades are made.


Last edited by vanwest: 09-21-2011 at 12:46 PM.
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Old
09-21-2011, 12:40 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I find it funny that some people actually believe that, no offense. Raymond didn't play particularly well last season, he looked a lot more like a 3rd line out there than he did a top 6 forward. Sturm would have been signed whether Raymond was injured or not, as we need someone who can score and score consistantly. Sturm has been a model of consistancy in terms of goal scoring over his career. His 7 out of 9 20+ goal seasons proves that, with him being injured the other 2 seasons.

If Sturm plays well and stays healthy, he will likely hold that top 6 LW spot for most of this season.
I actually see Samuelsson as the odd man out of the 2nd line mix at the end of things, he is a shoot first player and with Kesler being a shoot first player as well, I don't see how this meshes now.

When all things are said and done I wouldn't be suprised if the 2nd line (when healthy) looks like this: Sturm-Kesler-Higgins/Hodgson.

My darkhorse is Schroeder, and if either Hodgson or Schroeder play significant time on the 2nd line this year, it will be very good for the Canucks going forward (Cpt Obvious statement).

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09-21-2011, 12:46 PM
  #756
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I have to disagree with you luck, maybe this might be my own personal bias, but I see the Sturm signing as redundant. We already have an abundance of 2nd/3rd line left wingers, and I don't see how Sturm can make our team any better. Obviously if he plays well Ill be in the wrong, but I just don't see Sturm being any better than Raymond (assuming we have Sammy on the 2nd line). Sturm playing on the third line would be a waste, to me it seems like we have a log jam of low tier top 9 guys. Raymond can easily put up 20 goals, and his speed (although useless at times) will be an asset to Kesler

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09-21-2011, 12:48 PM
  #757
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My snap judgement after one pre-season game is Nolan won't make the team. He was losing battles along the wall and can't skate all that well. I just don't see anything special there.

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09-21-2011, 12:48 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auger View Post
I have to disagree with you luck, maybe this might be my own personal bias, but I see the Sturm signing as redundant. We already have an abundance of 2nd/3rd line left wingers, and I don't see how Sturm can make our team any better. Obviously if he plays well Ill be in the wrong, but I just don't see Sturm being any better than Raymond (assuming we have Sammy on the 2nd line). Sturm playing on the third line would be a waste, to me it seems like we have a log jam of low tier top 9 guys
Injuries will happen again and again. This team is built for the playoffs.

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09-21-2011, 12:50 PM
  #759
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Injuries will happen again and again. This team is built for the playoffs.
That's a good point. Sturm in the playoffs would be a big asset. I think we also missed Samuelsson.

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09-21-2011, 12:53 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
He didn't (neither did Sammy). But he's only turned 26 a few days ago - it's not like players develop in a 'straight line". I wouldn't 'write-him off' just yet for that 2nd line spot.

I wasn't all that keen on the Sturm signing - regardless of our injury situation (at least at his cap hit). Hopefully he'll prove me wrong.
I certainly am not writing off Raymond, I think next season he'll jump in and likely be back to 25-30 goals. But this season? He really won't have much time to "improve" any facets of his game, so I don't expect a lot out of him this year. In that regard, Sturm may be a bit of a bandaid but I don't think that was the intention.

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09-21-2011, 01:13 PM
  #761
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If both are healthy, Sturm is a better hockey player than Raymond.

Sturm is a intelligent player that knows how to use his teammates, a nose for the net, good wheels and can play anywhere up front PK or PP. He also has 7 20+ goal seasons. Raymond can skate really fast and kill penalties... He's like the new Shean Donovan with a lot more opportunity... Useful, but if I wanted a guy for the top 6 and both were healthy, I'd take Sturm.

It seems a lot of folks around here either have short memories or never really saw Sturm much previously. If healthy he's an effective player, a level above Mason Raymond at this point who desperately needs to find a way to use his teammates or he'll be a PK speedster eventually.

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Old
09-21-2011, 01:19 PM
  #762
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Tanev just keeps on getting better and he shows it on the SHG. That was a great break-out pass he made to Sturm to set up the rush. Most PKers would have been content to shoot the puck down the zone in that instance. Then to outskate Niklas Hagman to score that goal shows the kind of offensive potential that he has. Couple that with the wrister he blasted off the post after moving in from the point in the third period, something he never did last season, and we're looking at a more confident Tanev who will be more involved in the offense. My bet is that he'll PP the 2nd unit PP to begin the season, but I wouldn't be surprised if at some point during the season, he gets promoted to the top PP unit, alongside Edler. His, skating, poise and passing would be a huge asset to the PP.

Get ready folks. Tanev's about to blossom into a stud.

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09-21-2011, 01:31 PM
  #763
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The best case scenario for Raymond is that someone else steps up in his absence and takes that second line spot. Therefore, he doesn't rush back at all and when he does come back, he can ease his way back into the game.

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09-21-2011, 01:35 PM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auger View Post
I have to disagree with you luck, maybe this might be my own personal bias, but I see the Sturm signing as redundant. We already have an abundance of 2nd/3rd line left wingers, and I don't see how Sturm can make our team any better. Obviously if he plays well Ill be in the wrong, but I just don't see Sturm being any better than Raymond (assuming we have Sammy on the 2nd line). Sturm playing on the third line would be a waste, to me it seems like we have a log jam of low tier top 9 guys. Raymond can easily put up 20 goals, and his speed (although useless at times) will be an asset to Kesler
Having incredible depth isn't a negative. If by some fluke the Canucks are 100% healthy come playoff time it will be a great luxury for the coach to roll 4 quality lines against the opposition. A criticism of the Canucks last year was that if the Sedins and Kesler were shut down the rest of the Canucks offence was only average. If the Canucks can be one of the deepest teams offensively as well as having some of the top offensive talent that will be amazing.

Anyway, with Kesler and Raymond beginning the year injured Sturm may be invaluable as a stop-gap in the top 6. With the nature of the NHL today we might expect to have 1-2 injuries to the forward group on average throughout the season too.

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09-21-2011, 01:48 PM
  #765
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I have to disagree with you luck, maybe this might be my own personal bias, but I see the Sturm signing as redundant.
Given the injury situation in the play-off last season I just don't understand this line of thinking.

You can never have enough "good players" and even if Sturm gets caught in a numbers game and spends the bulk of the year on the 4th line, he might well end up being an important piece once the team starts picking up multiple injuries in next years playoff.

It doesn't matter that we have quite a few 2/3 rd line types, it should be crystal clear to everyone that you need more then 9, top 9 forwards.

You also need more then 4 top 4 defenseman and more then 6 top 6 guys. Hell having 2 quality goalies was also huge for us last season.

Gillis is building depth at every possible position, and given our cap situation he should be looking for even more.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:08 PM
  #766
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Sturm > Raymond

Raymond is a meh player, his best asset is turning the puck over to the opposition after a weak 'muffin' shot on net.

I look forward to seeing Higgins Kesler Sturm as our 2nd line, I believe its an improvement over last years slightly... obviously not a big Raymond fan.

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09-21-2011, 04:16 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by ClasslessVillain View Post
Sturm > Raymond

Raymond is a meh player, his best asset is turning the puck over to the opposition after a weak 'muffin' shot on net.

I look forward to seeing Higgins Kesler Sturm as our 2nd line, I believe its an improvement over last years slightly... obviously not a big Raymond fan.
I think it depends on whether we see 2009/2010 Raymond or last year's version and on whether Sturm can stay healthy.

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09-21-2011, 04:23 PM
  #768
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I'm not taking sides in the Raymond vs. Sturm debate as a player.

However, when looking at suitability to our second line, I'd lean strongly toward Sturm out of the two.

Despite his speed, Raymond just doesn't mesh well with Kesler. Both Raymond and Kesler like to carry the puck. I find that Raymond's insistence on puck carrying reduces Kesler's effectiveness.

Sturm can finish, but he can also move the puck around well. I think he'd be better suited to Kesler's wing.

We can find a home for Raymond on the 3rd line where his performance might actually outweigh expectations. The opposite has been happening when he's on the 2nd line.

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09-21-2011, 04:24 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
Tanev just keeps on getting better and he shows it on the SHG. That was a great break-out pass he made to Sturm to set up the rush. Most PKers would have been content to shoot the puck down the zone in that instance. Then to outskate Niklas Hagman to score that goal shows the kind of offensive potential that he has. Couple that with the wrister he blasted off the post after moving in from the point in the third period, something he never did last season, and we're looking at a more confident Tanev who will be more involved in the offense. My bet is that he'll PP the 2nd unit PP to begin the season, but I wouldn't be surprised if at some point during the season, he gets promoted to the top PP unit, alongside Edler. His, skating, poise and passing would be a huge asset to the PP.

Get ready folks. Tanev's about to blossom into a stud.
He is blossoming, but I won't go as far as to say he's gonna be a stud. But he will become a very solid 2nd pairing defensemen.

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09-21-2011, 04:37 PM
  #770
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What was the report on Hodgson from the game in Calgary?

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09-21-2011, 04:44 PM
  #771
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Did you read this thread...at all?

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09-21-2011, 04:45 PM
  #772
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All 3 of raymond/higgins/sturm are about the same level of player. 50 pt player that can score 20 goals and are decent defensively.

What the canucks really needed was another offensive player that can create on his own, not these complimentary top 6 forwards.

The fact that sturm is much older than raymond, its ironic people are calling him an upgrade over raymond after 1 preseason game.

Marco Sturm is 33 years old, what are the chances he breaks out now? His career high is 56 pts which is 3 more than Mason Raymond's career high. And Raymond just turned 26.


Unless we make a trade, really our hope of finding that top 6 forawrd to keep up with kesler and create a killer duo is one of hodgson/schroeder/Jensen with Jensen being quite a while away.

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09-21-2011, 04:51 PM
  #773
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Did you read this thread...at all?
Cool, sort of like "here I googled it for you." I went back a few pages but no, I didn't read all 30 pages. People alluded to him looking good but that's all I got without sifting through the whole thing. Cheers!

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09-21-2011, 05:09 PM
  #774
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All 3 of raymond/higgins/sturm are about the same level of player. 50 pt player that can score 20 goals and are decent defensively.

What the canucks really needed was another offensive player that can create on his own, not these complimentary top 6 forwards.

The fact that sturm is much older than raymond, its ironic people are calling him an upgrade over raymond after 1 preseason game.

Marco Sturm is 33 years old, what are the chances he breaks out now? His career high is 56 pts which is 3 more than Mason Raymond's career high. And Raymond just turned 26.


Unless we make a trade, really our hope of finding that top 6 forawrd to keep up with kesler and create a killer duo is one of hodgson/schroeder/Jensen with Jensen being quite a while away.
The different is Sturm has consistantly been that in 7 of his last 9 seasons, with 2 being cut short due to injury. The question mark on him isn't consistancy, it's staying healthy. Raymond and Higgins however are more of a question of "do they still have it?" This seems weird for players their age, but they haven't had "it" for atleast a season. I'd take the consistancy Sturm provides any day over those 2, as long as he remains healthy.

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Old
09-21-2011, 05:09 PM
  #775
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Cool, sort of like "here I googled it for you." I went back a few pages but no, I didn't read all 30 pages. People alluded to him looking good but that's all I got without sifting through the whole thing. Cheers!
Hodgson was good on the PK with a few good plays to keep the powerplay out of the zone. He also showed a few glimpses of skill and created 2 or 3 chances for himself, one of which just abou trickled in.

On the bad side, his shooting wasn't great and he flubbed the puck a few times while trying to dangle.

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