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R.J. Umberger Signs 5-Year $23 Million Extension

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Old
09-22-2011, 04:21 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
It's hard to be a heart-and-soul guy while alternating between the press box and the trainers table.
A lot of assumptions in that statement. The statement is accurate if that were to transpire. There has been no evidence of frailty and other veterans have managed to keep themselves in the lineup.

Elite skill doesn't protect you from injuries. You seem to be banking this entire bet of yours on the position that once you hit 34 you can no longer stay in the lineup.

Time will tell, however, get used to it. Nash's salary @ 34 should scare the hell out of you then.

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09-22-2011, 04:23 PM
  #77
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Umberger is the second/Third (scoring) line winger, but:

- he is very good in the defense
- his achievments are stabile
- he is great in the front of the net
- he knows to play in the important part of the game or in the important games (he is PO specialist)
- he is soul of the team he make our team better
- and his points are good

and now:
Dubinsky: 4,200
Callahan: 4,292

what do you think how many would he get in the open market? do you think that less? in this time and with his achievments? not.

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09-22-2011, 04:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Drury didn't really tumble until he was 33 (34 during the offseason). Which is about when RJ's contract ends (he turns 34 in the May at the end of his final contracted year). Plus, RJ's bigger and has been more durable (recall the whole "hasn't missed a game as a Blue Jacket" bit). I wouldn't be too worried.

(That and RJ isn't being paid anything near what Drury was paid, but that's kind of unrelated to the point. )
Durability wasn't ever an issue for Drury until last season, he played 71 games once, and every other season at least 76.

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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I don't think that's an unfair comparison. Drury retired at 35, after two years of diminished play. Prior to that, his numbers were very similar to RJ's recent numbers. Will Umberger drop off as precipitously when he reaches the same age? You think, yes; others, including team management, think not.

Will RJ's $4.6 mil. be as burdensome to the Jackets at that time as Drury's salary was perceived to be to the Rags? With inflation and rising salaries, I doubt it. Your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's, so we'll have to wait to see who had a better guess at the future.
The only issue I have with the comparison is that at his best Drury was better than what RJ has been, in terms of vision and passing. Both players score(d) goals in similar manner, by working hard and being in the right place at the right time and both provide(d) verteran leadership. Both were paid slightly more because of it. Drury also had more playoff experience, which would seem to inflate his value a little bit more.

Assuming the cap continues to rise, the contract shouldn't present much of an issue on that front especially if we truly aren't a budget team anymore, but it's more in vein of the "should 3rd and 4th line players be making 3, 4, 5 million a season?" I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't, and that I see RJ in that role sooner rather than later. It's not my money though!

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09-22-2011, 04:48 PM
  #79
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It is nice but:

- Drury signed in a new team
- Umberger resigned and we know his achievments here

- Drury was 31 when he signed
- Umberger is 29 when he resigned

- Drury played good in the team what played good
- Umberger played good in the team what did not play extra good

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09-22-2011, 05:36 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Durability wasn't ever an issue for Drury until last season, he played 71 games once, and every other season at least 76.
And RJ Umberger, out of 510 career NHL games available (playoffs included), has played 500 of them. He missed eight games in 2007-2008 to a left hand injury and an MCL sprain, missed one playoff game as a precaution from a head injury in 2006, and missed one game due to the flu in 2007. He has made it to every single other game. His lowest season total (playoffs excluded) is 73, and that was because he started that year in the AHL. His next lowest is 74 - the year he missed eight games from two injuries (and he went on from there to put up career numbers in 17 playoff games, the year before we acquired him). Next lowest is 81.

He has missed less than 2% of his career to injury. There are very few hockey players of which that can be said.

If durability suddenly became an issue for RJ to the extent you are suggesting, it would be dramatic and unprecedented to say the least.

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09-22-2011, 06:51 PM
  #81
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lol, are people comparing Drury to Umberger contract wise?

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09-22-2011, 07:07 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
There are no negatives with RJ Umberger, he is the heart and soul, and he puts up the points. He's the Jackets MVP.

If we want to talk about bad extensions, I'll go bump the Tyutin thread.

Most over used phrase in every Umberger thread. So sick of it I could puke. I also think it is BS. Just because he rants and scowls doesn't make him a better leader, more "heart and soul" than Nash or anyone else. God how I hope this trite phrase goes away...

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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
I'm pretty sure I can count the number of non-positive posts re: RJU without taking off my shoes.

Everybody loves RJ, that's great, but it seems that everyone loves him because he plays hard and puts up points. However I can't see his style or level of play being sustainable past his early 30's. There's no elite level skill for him to fall back on once injuries and age take their toll, and they will.

I've yet to be convinced that a 5 year deal for a player already halfway through his prime is a good idea. Given the amount of support he has around here, I expected that someone would have been able to articulate what on-ice skills led to this contract. I'm not looking for stats or numbers, because anyone can copy and paste those from nhl.com, but rather an actual analysis of why in 3, 4 or 5 years RJ will be worth 4.5 million, because I just don't see it.

Your point about veteran leadership is a good one, and that is valuable, especially from someone who has been with the organization for a significant period of time. Much more valuable than the "veteran-leadership" type one-year deals and trades we've seen made the last few years. Honestly, I just don't see this team being in a position to make use of said veteran leadership in that time frame. I'd love to be wrong about that though.
Um, yeah... not EVERYBODY.

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09-22-2011, 07:21 PM
  #83
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As always, Jeff at Ten Minute Misconduct does an excellent job with financial analysis:

http://tenminutemisconduct.com/2011/...hats-he-worth/

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09-22-2011, 07:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
As always, Jeff at Ten Minute Misconduct does an excellent job with financial analysis:

http://tenminutemisconduct.com/2011/...hats-he-worth/
Thanks Pete. I think that spells it out nicely.

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09-22-2011, 07:53 PM
  #85
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I'm happy the organization signed him but the amount was more than a third liner would normally fetch.. Many will debate this but had the CBJ been built to win the cup the top two lines would have better players pushing RJ to the third. His career numbers are based, to a significant degree, on scoring line play in Columbus.

As for any comparison to Drury, stop it, there is little. That said I do believe RJ is the heart of the Jackets and I do believe he should be Captain. You will see him on the third line most of the coming season barring injury to our top six.

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09-22-2011, 07:58 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I'm happy the organization signed him but the amount was more than a third liner would normally fetch.. Many will debate this but had the CBJ been built to win the cup the top two lines would have better players pushing RJ to the third. His career numbers are based, to a significant degree, on scoring line play in Columbus.

As for any comparison to Drury, stop it, there is little. That said I do believe RJ is the heart of the Jackets and I do believe he should be Captain. You will see him on the third line most of the coming season barring injury to our top six.
Where have we heard this before

Edit: I'm not even a big RJ guy either but cmon......

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09-22-2011, 08:36 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I'm happy the organization signed him but the amount was more than a third liner would normally fetch...
Who's the 3rd liner in question?

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09-22-2011, 08:45 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
.
It's also not about the Umberger Fan Club, it's about the Umberger contract. It's too much money and too many years for what he brings on the ice. I've yet to see a defense for the contract that doesn't include past points scored or that he's a heart-and-soul guy.

I understand he scored 57 points last year just fine, Viq'. I also understand he got paid handsomely for it, at a salary comparable to his new contract numbers too. So it seems to indicate that Scott Howson thinks he will continue to perform at a similar level. Based on support of the contract, so do you and others. I disagree.

Scott Howson doesn't need to explain his signings, especially to me, if they aren't the right ones, he'll lose his job. I'm waiting on a member of the Umberger Fan Club to actually respond with an articulate analysis of why they support the contract. Not just "OMG he put up points last year you dummy!" or how he's a heart-and-soul guy.
Except those are the articulated opinions of those who believe it's a good deal for the team. You just don't agree with them, and thus dismiss them as trite, but in truth you're purposefully mischaracterizing them. It'd be like if I said "the only thing the RJ haters have brought to the table is 'ooh, he'll be an old fart by then.'"

You claim to want articulated answers but you're not going to agree with any of them because, well, you disagree with them.

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Who's the 3rd liner in question?
I'm choosing to take it at face value. "Hey, that's more than a third-liner makes."

Cool. It's more than I make, too.

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09-22-2011, 08:46 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby View Post
Most over used phrase in every Umberger thread. So sick of it I could puke. I also think it is BS. Just because he rants and scowls doesn't make him a better leader, more "heart and soul" than Nash or anyone else. God how I hope this trite phrase goes away...
Tell that to Scott Howson, Scott Arniel, and Rick Nash. And then get off your high horse. The phrase did NOT come from his fan club - unless you count this team's leaders and managers as part of that fan club.

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09-22-2011, 08:48 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I'm happy the organization signed him but the amount was more than a third liner would normally fetch.
Is Jason Pominville a third-liner? How about Johan Franzen? How about David Backes?

F***ing quit it already. I've cajoled, I've reasoned, I've textdumped, I've ranted, I've raved, I've screamed. I've had enough. Just f***ing quit it already. He's not a third-liner. No more "debate".

Criminy, at this rate of player evaluation Jeff Carter is going to be our checking center.

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09-22-2011, 08:54 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Is Jason Pominville a third-liner? How about Johan Franzen? How about David Backes?

F***ing quit it already. I've cajoled, I've reasoned, I've textdumped, I've ranted, I've raved, I've screamed. I've had enough. Just f***ing quit it already. He's not a third-liner. No more "debate".

Criminy, at this rate of player evaluation Jeff Carter is going to be our checking center.
You mean he isn't?

*Starts changing NHL 12 lineup*

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09-22-2011, 09:09 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Except those are the articulated opinions of those who believe it's a good deal for the team. You just don't agree with them, and thus dismiss them as trite, but in truth you're purposefully mischaracterizing them. It'd be like if I said "the only thing the RJ haters have brought to the table is 'ooh, he'll be an old fart by then.'"

You claim to want articulated answers but you're not going to agree with any of them because, well, you disagree with them.
I'd like someone to discuss why they support the contract with a little bit more substance to their opinion. Not to change my mind (you're right, they won't) but to point out why he got this contract, because I just don't see it.

If what's been said is the extent of their articulation, then I'm disappointed.

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09-22-2011, 09:19 PM
  #93
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lol, are people comparing Drury to Umberger contract wise?
No, not at all. Comparing career arcs based on similar qualities brought to the table, yes. The contract discussion was a small side note in the larger context of the discussion and was mostly meant to augment the comparison of the players and how they are both overpaid (IMO re: RJ), and how teams are willing to overpay for said qualities.

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09-22-2011, 09:27 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Is Jason Pominville a third-liner? How about Johan Franzen? How about David Backes?

F***ing quit it already. I've cajoled, I've reasoned, I've textdumped, I've ranted, I've raved, I've screamed. I've had enough. Just f***ing quit it already. He's not a third-liner. No more "debate".

Criminy, at this rate of player evaluation Jeff Carter is going to be our checking center.
I think Drew Stafford would be a better comparison than Pominville in my opinion.... and Stafford is a third liner. RJ got more money than the overall numbers would indicate but I also think every franchise must do things out of the norm to satisfy team needs. For example, I think six million for Ville Leino is crazy according to the numbers but he brings what the Sabres need, a guy for the playoffs. RJ brings leadership and spirit to a team in need of inspiration..

I love RJ and one thing is for sure, RJ now loves Columbus....


Last edited by Robert: 09-22-2011 at 09:35 PM.
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09-22-2011, 09:37 PM
  #95
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You mean he isn't?

*Starts changing NHL 12 lineup*



"My 4th line is Pahlsson-McKenzie-Carter

What was I thinking ?!"

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09-22-2011, 09:41 PM
  #96
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Quote:
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I think Drew Stafford would be a better comparison than Pominville in my opinion.... and Stafford is a third liner. RJ got more money than the overall numbers would indicate but I also think every franchise must do things out of the norm to satisfy team needs. For example, I think six million for Ville Leino is crazy according to the numbers but he brings what the Sabres need, a guy for the playoffs. RJ brings leadership and spirit to a team in need of inspiration..

I love RJ and one thing is for sure, RJ now loves Columbus....
Criminy. Let me know when Manny Malhotra reaches fifty points, then, so we can finally recognize him as a quality checking line center.

And it's really unfortunate how Franzen's 55 points last year got him demoted to the Red Wings Presented By Amway checking line.

Is Ville Leino also a third-line guy? I keep hearing folks saying he's going to be the second line center over there, and RJ kind of outperformed him last year and the year before that and the year before that...


Take a look at the rest of the league and what the leaguewide standards of the day are sometime. This isn't 1985 anymore.

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09-22-2011, 09:42 PM
  #97
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"My 4th line is Pahlsson-McKenzie-Carter

What was I thinking ?!"
Two centers playing as wingers? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE


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09-22-2011, 09:48 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Criminy. Let me know when Manny Malhotra reaches fifty points, then, so we can finally recognize him as a quality checking line center.

And it's really unfortunate how Franzen's 55 points last year got him demoted to the Red Wings Presented By Amway checking line.

Is Ville Leino also a third-line guy? I keep hearing folks saying he's going to be the second line center over there, and RJ kind of outperformed him last year and the year before that and the year before that...


Take a look at the rest of the league and what the leaguewide standards of the day are sometime. This isn't 1985 anymore.
I would think most non CBJ fans would probably say RJ's contract raised the bar for salary..., I mentioned Leino not for the line but the salary/pts, it's yet to be determined what line he plays on but it will be 1 or 2... Oh, it's not 1985 anymore and modern thought is 3 scoring lines with one defensive line now, the fourth. So, it won't be uncommon to see middle of the range scorers on the third line. Checking line may be something we hear less and less as time goes on. Checking is something everyone is expected to do these days....


Last edited by Robert: 09-22-2011 at 10:04 PM.
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09-22-2011, 09:59 PM
  #99
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I would think most non CBJ fans would probably say RJ's contract rasied the bar for salary..., I mentioned Leino not for the line but the salary/pts, it's yet to be determined what line he plays on but it will be 1 or 2...
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=988071

Many did. They were pretty much all shot down. By folks who aren't CBJ fans. Frankly, the bar was set long before this contract came along.

And he's still not a third liner.

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09-22-2011, 11:07 PM
  #100
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I like what RJ brings to the team, so I'm happy he's signed long-term and getting his money. As a fan, it's really not anymore complicated than that.

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