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Old
09-21-2011, 05:19 PM
  #26
Axe Man
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I would be totally fine with a Coliseum renovation. I just hope they keep the interior bowl similar to what it is now and not some enormously cavernous building where there is no crowd noise.

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09-21-2011, 05:22 PM
  #27
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I want nothing to do with a renovation of the most disgusting building in the NHL. What are they going to do, raise the rough and repaint the building? Yeah, sign me up for that, NOT.

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09-21-2011, 05:31 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
I want nothing to do with a renovation of the most disgusting building in the NHL. What are they going to do, raise the rough and repaint the building? Yeah, sign me up for that, NOT.
but the sight lines will be amazing

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09-21-2011, 05:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Eddie Van Halen View Post
I would be totally fine with a Coliseum renovation. I just hope they keep the interior bowl similar to what it is now and not some enormously cavernous building where there is no crowd noise.
They would have to. To change the sitelines would mean they demo the bowl and build new.

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09-21-2011, 06:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
I want nothing to do with a renovation of the most disgusting building in the NHL. What are they going to do, raise the rough and repaint the building? Yeah, sign me up for that, NOT.
This.

If Wang isn't getting the revenue he needs he's gone

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Old
09-21-2011, 06:53 PM
  #31
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As a nassau county resident I would have much prefered the 8/1 proposal. I liked that the town would own the land and the buildings.

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Old
09-21-2011, 07:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
I want nothing to do with a renovation of the most disgusting building in the NHL. What are they going to do, raise the rough and repaint the building? Yeah, sign me up for that, NOT.

Didn't the original LHP call for a renovation rather than a new building?

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Old
09-21-2011, 07:56 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Veteran journeyman View Post
Didn't the original LHP call for a renovation rather than a new building?
yes, I can't think of any of the proposals that would build a new building instead of the 8/1 proposal.

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Old
09-21-2011, 08:23 PM
  #34
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I actually know Angelo Corva - we do business with their firm.

Coincidentally, I was just in their old office earlier this week doing some HVAC work. I'll try to glean some information, I feel a blog coming on.


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Old
09-21-2011, 09:25 PM
  #35
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What will $100M do? Well, here's what $35M did for Tampa:

http://video.lightning.nhl.com/video...d=791&id=95725

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:27 PM
  #36
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Has anyone read the comments for the article? What will make these people happy? When they went for the referendum all the nay sayers said, 'go get private financing'. So now we have a proposal with private financing in the works and they bash it some more. I think that some of them actually think that this is Mangano's proposal. I just don't get it...

Essentially this deal reads to me 'if you let us develop the 77 acres surrounding the colly we will throw $100M at a renovation'. Not the best case scenario but I will take it.

This project can not be compared to the LHP. $3.74B v. $347M are projects that (designs unseen) have to be WORLDS apart. That means great news for TOH approval, coupled with the 'right' players involved in ABLI, looks like it is shaping up for some interesting progress.

The only major downside is Wang is not in on the development. We all know he wanted to develop the property around the colly. If this does go through can Wang still leave after 2015? Will he take his ball and go home?

I guess we will have to wait and see put i for one am excited about it all, as previous posters noted this appears to be our best shot thus far.

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:32 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xECK29x View Post
yes, I can't think of any of the proposals that would build a new building instead of the 8/1 proposal.
But those were lauded.....yet now we need a whole new building. What gives?

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:35 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
What will $100M do? Well, here's what $35M did for Tampa:

http://video.lightning.nhl.com/video...d=791&id=95725
I like wear your head is at but t is not exactly the same. Giving a 15 year old structure a face lift and a 40 year old structure a revamp are different projects.

Don't get me wrong I believe $100M is a doable reno, but as you have said early I think the number should be closer to $200M.

Lets see some designs!

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:37 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
Has anyone read the comments for the article? What will make these people happy? When they went for the referendum all the nay sayers said, 'go get private financing'. So now we have a proposal with private financing in the works and they bash it some more. I think that some of them actually think that this is Mangano's proposal. I just don't get it...

Essentially this deal reads to me 'if you let us develop the 77 acres surrounding the colly we will throw $100M at a renovation'. Not the best case scenario but I will take it.

This project can not be compared to the LHP. $3.74B v. $347M are projects that (designs unseen) have to be WORLDS apart. That means great news for TOH approval, coupled with the 'right' players involved in ABLI, looks like it is shaping up for some interesting progress.

The only major downside is Wang is not in on the development. We all know he wanted to develop the property around the colly. If this does go through can Wang still leave after 2015? Will he take his ball and go home?

I guess we will have to wait and see put i for one am excited about it all, as previous posters noted this appears to be our best shot thus far.
I don't like taxpayer land going to private individuals in the LHP, I don't like it going to them here. The taxpayer gets screwed (yet again).

I wanna know if there's a plan for the renovations and has anyone in Nassau on either party seen it? Would Wang consider it as a barter piece to land a long term lease extension in a sweetheart deal?

At worst, ABLI nudged the two parties enough to consider getting something done. Soon.

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:41 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
Has anyone read the comments for the article? What will make these people happy? When they went for the referendum all the nay sayers said, 'go get private financing'. So now we have a proposal with private financing in the works and they bash it some more. I think that some of them actually think that this is Mangano's proposal. I just don't get it...

Essentially this deal reads to me 'if you let us develop the 77 acres surrounding the colly we will throw $100M at a renovation'. Not the best case scenario but I will take it.

This project can not be compared to the LHP. $3.74B v. $347M are projects that (designs unseen) have to be WORLDS apart. That means great news for TOH approval, coupled with the 'right' players involved in ABLI, looks like it is shaping up for some interesting progress.

The only major downside is Wang is not in on the development. We all know he wanted to develop the property around the colly. If this does go through can Wang still leave after 2015? Will he take his ball and go home?

I guess we will have to wait and see put i for one am excited about it all, as previous posters noted this appears to be our best shot thus far.
this is what made me suspicious of all the extensions the isles have been handing out, and one of the sticking points for the lone UFA target they went after (erhoff)...all the contracts are backloaded. because of that, and i'm sure many here probably mentioned it as well but i probably missed it, i'm suspicious that wang knows his days are numbered as far as using the team as leverage for a development project.

by re-upping some of the core players, it makes him look like he still cared about the team, but by backloading the contracts, he doesn't take on the responsibility of actually having to pay them if(when?) he sells the team.

i'm wondering if this passes(or some variation of it), and wang is shut out from a development standpoint, it will be the final nail in the coffin for him.

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:47 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
I like wear your head is at but t is not exactly the same. Giving a 15 year old structure a face lift and a 40 year old structure a revamp are different projects.

Don't get me wrong I believe $100M is a doable reno, but as you have said early I think the number should be closer to $200M.

Lets see some designs!
Trust me, I know. But people were throwing out $400M figures and saying it would be cheaper to build a new arena fallaciously. Tampa used $35M and expanded the concourse, made some stunning options for fans, renovated the club area and we're talking structure and high end retail as well as general fan enjoyment and revenue sources. What would that money do to expand just the NVMC concourse and make a facelift?

Now add money to budget a 400 section and luxury suites. The exterior wall extended, it would simply be tacked on with the new support structure in place. $50M? Now how much to spruce up the rails, replace the seats and replace two condensers below the ice surface?

With what I saw in Tampa, I can see it going under $200M easily.....depending on the brain trust planning it.

Which means cancel that last thought; it'll be $200M.

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:50 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedonger View Post
this is what made me suspicious of all the extensions the isles have been handing out, and one of the sticking points for the lone UFA target they went after (erhoff)...all the contracts are backloaded. because of that, and i'm sure many here probably mentioned it as well but i probably missed it, i'm suspicious that wang knows his days are numbered as far as using the team as leverage for a development project.

by re-upping some of the core players, it makes him look like he still cared about the team, but by backloading the contracts, he doesn't take on the responsibility of actually having to pay them if(when?) he sells the team.

i'm wondering if this passes(or some variation of it), and wang is shut out from a development standpoint, it will be the final nail in the coffin for him.
I was suspicious about that as well. But then I saw Tavares deal and wondered if the back heavy contracts were some brain faht he had that a player earning more next year would magically stay healthy for the big payday? I don't get the logic. The Tavares deal and others have me thinking he's focused on the improvements and success on Snow's part being more comforting.....

meaning the TEAM sells tickets, not his long term contract gestures. He's content with Snow offering smart money to good players and staying out of it.

Or he's just learned everything he touches is **** and to think of 6 as long term, not 15 or 20.

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Old
09-21-2011, 10:13 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
I was suspicious about that as well. But then I saw Tavares deal and wondered if the back heavy contracts were some brain faht he had that a player earning more next year would magically stay healthy for the big payday? I don't get the logic. The Tavares deal and others have me thinking he's focused on the improvements and success on Snow's part being more comforting.....

meaning the TEAM sells tickets, not his long term contract gestures. He's content with Snow offering smart money to good players and staying out of it.

Or he's just learned everything he touches is **** and to think of 6 as long term, not 15 or 20.
well, i was sort of including the tavares deal as being sort of backloaded, although not as heavily as grabner's and ko's, since ti goes 4mil the first year, then 5 mil, then averaging 6mil the last 4.
now, i thought i saw that the deal doesn't take effect until next season(not sure if this is correct though), so wouldn't the 6mil start kicking in at the beginning of the '14-'15 season when the lease expires?

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:57 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Trust me, I know. But people were throwing out $400M figures and saying it would be cheaper to build a new arena fallaciously. Tampa used $35M and expanded the concourse, made some stunning options for fans, renovated the club area and we're talking structure and high end retail as well as general fan enjoyment and revenue sources. What would that money do to expand just the NVMC concourse and make a facelift?

Now add money to budget a 400 section and luxury suites. The exterior wall extended, it would simply be tacked on with the new support structure in place. $50M? Now how much to spruce up the rails, replace the seats and replace two condensers below the ice surface?

With what I saw in Tampa, I can see it going under $200M easily.....depending on the brain trust planning it.

Which means cancel that last thought; it'll be $200M.
The St. Pete Times Forum is 20times nicer than NVMC is right now. It's obviously going to cost less to renovate-they don't have to renovate the whole arena, bathrooms, concourses, outside, etc.

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Old
09-22-2011, 02:14 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
The St. Pete Times Forum is 20times nicer than NVMC is right now. It's obviously going to cost less to renovate-they don't have to renovate the whole arena, bathrooms, concourses, outside, etc.
Did you watch? They're renovating the concourse, patio, widening the concourse, adding eateries, etc.

Please read what I posted and watch the video before refuting it. A "small" renovation was outlined with price and I added we have another aspect or two to deal with at greater cost, or did I not?

here's what was posted six posts before the one you quoted:
http://video.lightning.nhl.com/video...d=791&id=95725

so $35M for that. OBVIOUSLY we don't stop there.....but the price should spell out the fallacy of a $300-400M renovation.

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Old
09-22-2011, 06:36 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
Has anyone read the comments for the article? What will make these people happy? When they went for the referendum all the nay sayers said, 'go get private financing'. So now we have a proposal with private financing in the works and they bash it some more. I think that some of them actually think that this is Mangano's proposal. I just don't get it...

Essentially this deal reads to me 'if you let us develop the 77 acres surrounding the colly we will throw $100M at a renovation'. Not the best case scenario but I will take it.

This project can not be compared to the LHP. $3.74B v. $347M are projects that (designs unseen) have to be WORLDS apart. That means great news for TOH approval, coupled with the 'right' players involved in ABLI, looks like it is shaping up for some interesting progress.

The only major downside is Wang is not in on the development. We all know he wanted to develop the property around the colly. If this does go through can Wang still leave after 2015? Will he take his ball and go home?

I guess we will have to wait and see put i for one am excited about it all, as previous posters noted this appears to be our best shot thus far.
The article said nothing about financing in the works. It stated that financing would have to be procured privately. This proposal is just an architects rendering of what can be done, apparently with no consultation from the owner or county , and was met with a cool response from both. No structural survey of the NVMC has been done so any renovation figure is way premature. As of today this is nothing more than an idea on a napkin, again! Nassau reminds me of companies who have meetings just for the sake of meetings.

Until Wang stands up and says what his plans are where his plans are and how he plans to pay for his plans this is just more wasted time.

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Old
09-22-2011, 07:49 AM
  #47
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Speaking of financing the Nassau redevelopment hub is competing for state and federal dollars against the transportation hub plan just announced by the town of Islip and Brookhaven. This plan is light years ahead of anything Nassau has come up with in terms of planning, cooperation and best use of government funds to serve the broadest section of the population. Factor in that this plan is being steered by two cooperative townships, is a solid single plan that has been worked on for a long period of time and will be seen as improving the areas transportation infrastructure and you begin to see how far up Nassau has its head in its A$$ in terms of planning in todays economy. How does adding more retail and a hockey arena compete with this? If Nassau had any clue a new plan would rely on high tech development and manufacturing facilities served by a rail spur with some mid density housing. Something that can be seen as promoting real job growth, mass transportation, housing that does not increase the burden on the existing infrastructure and higher paying jobs. Then maybe they could fit an arena and a small amount of retail into the equation. But its Nassau so.....

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Old
09-22-2011, 08:02 AM
  #48
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Other than saying it would be privately financed, did that article get into any specifics about who would own the land, who would develop what, and who would get what revenues? I don't think so. It's kind of like unemployed people with no savings looking at house plans....

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09-22-2011, 11:22 AM
  #49
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Didn't Wang want to lower the ice level to create more luxury boxes?

If they do a "major renovation", how long would it take? Would the Isles have to play their home games somewhere else temporarily?

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Old
09-22-2011, 11:58 AM
  #50
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It looks like — from the renderings posted — it will be one gigantic parking garage, a baseball field we don't need, and a big green lawn.

This is the best that can be done?

What ever one may think of Wang's Lighthouse, at least it was a use of space, and would have created a larger tax base for the County. This ultimately creates nothing substantial.

I wish Wang and Co. found a partner with at least a morsel of a brain in the Town of Hempstead to negotiate out his vision — even one that was scaled down — because this is more of the same DULL long Island, old thinking stup1dity that has straggled Nassau County, Long Island, and all of us. This a COMPLETE lack of vision or creativity. In a word — UGLY!

What a shame.

That said — I am willing to support anything — be it a move to Brooklyn, Queens or Suffolk — or even this reject of a plan if it means keeping my one true sporting passion within shouting distance of my home.

Politicos of all stripes continue to fail us day and day. I wish all of these people — be it the House, Senate or local government would be stringently term limited, because the only thing they care about is re-election. If they gave two cents about the People, plans like this would never see the light of day.

My broader thoughts... http://hockeyindependent.com/blog/hyedray/38817/


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