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09-22-2011, 12:17 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Did you watch? They're renovating the concourse, patio, widening the concourse, adding eateries, etc.

Please read what I posted and watch the video before refuting it. A "small" renovation was outlined with price and I added we have another aspect or two to deal with at greater cost, or did I not?

here's what was posted six posts before the one you quoted:
http://video.lightning.nhl.com/video...d=791&id=95725

so $35M for that. OBVIOUSLY we don't stop there.....but the price should spell out the fallacy of a $300-400M renovation.
Yea saying we need $200 million just because is ridiculous, lets see what they plan on doing with the $100 million before we bash any revamp. Jesus people. Haha.

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09-22-2011, 01:06 PM
  #52
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I'm intrigued by any proposal that keeps the Islanders home and keeps them in the old barn. But of course, if there's one thing that Islander fans are used to by now, it's proposals.

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09-22-2011, 01:16 PM
  #53
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I think we are missing something here:

Redevelopment Proposal $347M

Cost to Renovate Colly - $100M
Cost to Build Minor League Park - $50M (Bethpage Park - then EAB Park Cost $20M in 2000)
Cost of Practice/Outdoor Rink - $20M?
Cost of Sitework - $20M?
Oversized Parking Garage - $30M?

Granted these numbers are rough but what are we missing? There must be other components that have not yet been reported on. What is the additional $120M for?

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09-22-2011, 01:49 PM
  #54
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I propose an Idea to my wife every nite......but she never does it....

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09-22-2011, 01:54 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
I think we are missing something here:

Redevelopment Proposal $347M

Cost to Renovate Colly - $100M
Cost to Build Minor League Park - $50M (Bethpage Park - then EAB Park Cost $20M in 2000)
Cost of Practice/Outdoor Rink - $20M?
Cost of Sitework - $20M?
Oversized Parking Garage - $30M?

Granted these numbers are rough but what are we missing? There must be other components that have not yet been reported on. What is the additional $120M for?
Don't get hung up on the 347M. That is a number devised from a very broad look at the project. There have been no surveys of the existing building yet. No detailed plans of the new buildings yet. No contract negotiations, nothing. This number is just an initial figure based on broad parameters. The thing to remember is that as of today there is zero dollars to do this project. Until Wang states his intentions and until somebody steps up with a check book this is no more than conversation. Also keep in mind that the TOH has already stated that the proposal would have to be reviewed. We all know where that leads to. Its Nassau so....

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09-22-2011, 02:24 PM
  #56
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If the developer will throw 100 million to remodel, maybe Wang will throw some monies in also? The barn is not a bad arena, but it does need some TLC. She's like an old car that needs some overhauling. I for one am okay with a remodeled and updated barn.

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09-22-2011, 03:29 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 Min Misconduct View Post
If the developer will throw 100 million to remodel, maybe Wang will throw some monies in also? The barn is not a bad arena, but it does need some TLC. She's like an old car that needs some overhauling. I for one am okay with a remodeled and updated barn.
That makes no sense, why would you throw in your own money to fix and update a place that is not yours. Here ill rent you my apartment for 1,000 a month but if you want a new kitchen and bathroom you have me 10,000 to do it and now I will raise your rent to 1200 because the taxes just went up.. It stupid!! If he throws in another 100 million, why not spend the additional 150-200 million and build the whole arena yourself??? I convinced that Wang will be left at the alter here and he is seriously looking to sell this team and get out of the Hockey business.

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Old
09-22-2011, 04:52 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorwood View Post
Don't get hung up on the 347M. That is a number devised from a very broad look at the project. There have been no surveys of the existing building yet. No detailed plans of the new buildings yet. No contract negotiations, nothing. This number is just an initial figure based on broad parameters. The thing to remember is that as of today there is zero dollars to do this project. Until Wang states his intentions and until somebody steps up with a check book this is no more than conversation. Also keep in mind that the TOH has already stated that the proposal would have to be reviewed. We all know where that leads to. Its Nassau so....
At least two of the task force members' names I have seen are hold political offices in the Town of Hempstead and North Hempstead. So it is completely different than the LHP. This is obviously not a rookie developer trying to build a Metropolis is Suburbia (not that I am opposed to that). What can be built with the remaining $120M I believe is something similar to what Cordis Co. put together for the Fliers: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=171793



As far as we know this proposal is the closest to happen no matter how far anyone perceives it. Nothing official has come out about WP, besides people drawing correlations between the Mets Black Alternate Jersey and our Proposed Black Alternate Jersey (that may be the most ridiculous conclusion I have ever heard). Besides Ratner saying he doesn't think anything can happen in Nassau and they should move in to to BK nothing has been said on either side. To use your analogy this bar room idea didn't even make it to the napkin. No one has discussed if they are going to make the rink NHL compliant, if they do who pay for it, or what kind of tenant deal Wang is working out.

This is plan that has been put together by the 'right' people and keeps the Isles at home.

For those of you asking who will pay, where will the private financing come from? ABLI is a millionaire club for only the fatest of cat developers. They could possible use their collective wealth as collateral to receive the private loan that Wang doesn't want to get on his own. This is what these people do for a living, and based on their bank accounts they are good at what they do.

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09-22-2011, 04:59 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
That makes no sense, why would you throw in your own money to fix and update a place that is not yours. Here ill rent you my apartment for 1,000 a month but if you want a new kitchen and bathroom you have me 10,000 to do it and now I will raise your rent to 1200 because the taxes just went up.. It stupid!! If he throws in another 100 million, why not spend the additional 150-200 million and build the whole arena yourself??? I convinced that Wang will be left at the alter here and he is seriously looking to sell this team and get out of the Hockey business.
If he invests money he makes money. A friend of mine owns a catering company, he has a long term lease at a hall. The first thing he did was redo the bathrooms and re carpet the ballroom. Why? He doesn't own it he just has a long term lease (30 years to be exact), because no one wants to book their daughters sweet sixteen in a place with ratty old carpet and rank a** bathrooms.

It makes sense. I am not saying he should pay for it all be he can chip in to make up the difference.

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09-22-2011, 05:02 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
If he invests money he makes money. A friend of mine owns a catering company, he has a long term lease at a hall. The first thing he did was redo the bathrooms and re carpet the ballroom. Why? He doesn't own it he just has a long term lease (30 years to be exact), because no one wants to book their daughters sweet sixteen in a place with ratty old carpet and rank a** bathrooms.

It makes sense. I am not saying he should pay for it all be he can chip in to make up the difference.
Thats a great analogy but all this time did your catering hall friend give a huge percentage of all profits to the lease owner for his hard work? Charles Wang did for years as did the owners before him!!

After everything Nassau put this guy through and he still remains.. he must be filling his pockets secretly because he does not care about this team and its future

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09-22-2011, 05:11 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
Thats a great analogy but all this time did your catering hall friend give a huge percentage of all profits to the lease owner for his hard work? Charles Wang did for years as did the owners before him!!

After everything Nassau put this guy through and he still remains.. he must be filling his pockets secretly because he does not care about this team and its future
Point taken

But just fyi, thus far he has dropped more in renovations than he has on the lease.

Maybe something Wanger should have thought about years ago?

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Old
09-22-2011, 05:23 PM
  #62
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Excuse my french but WHY THE **** WOULD U CARE ABOUT THE MONEY IF ITS PRIVATELY FUNDED.... IF UR AN ISLES FAN JUST LET IT HAPPEN AND STOP COMPLAINING!!!! LET THEM STAY!

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09-22-2011, 05:25 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesfan24 View Post
Excuse my french but WHY THE **** WOULD U CARE ABOUT THE MONEY IF ITS PRIVATELY FUNDED.... IF UR AN ISLES FAN JUST LET IT HAPPEN AND STOP COMPLAINING!!!! LET THEM STAY!
NO!! This is so stupid and impossible. It's just not economically viable

Translation: MOVE TO QUEENS MOVE TO QUEENS YEAH YEAH YEAH! SHINY BUILDING SHINY BUILDING RAH RAH RAH!

Which matters more folks? The Islanders staying, or a perpetually vacant new arena built on top of someone else's property?

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09-22-2011, 05:30 PM
  #64
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Which matters more folks, Having the only pro sports team on long Island leave and have the colly knocked down and turned into a mall, or have queens pretend like they enjoy hockey for five games and then have an ugly arena with a partnership with the US open or something... Im actually pro queens but only IF THE ISLANDERS HAVE TO 100% Leave nassau.

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09-22-2011, 05:33 PM
  #65
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It's hard to form any strong opinions on this plan when it's at the proposal stage. Like any other proposal, could be much ado about nothing.

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09-22-2011, 05:44 PM
  #66
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As long as the Isles stay I could care less about anything else. Everyone will make their money somehow. Its just a matter of how everyone is going to get a piece of the pie. Wang knows what hes doing. The guy isnt a billionaire for nothing.

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09-22-2011, 08:08 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
That makes no sense, why would you throw in your own money to fix and update a place that is not yours. Here ill rent you my apartment for 1,000 a month but if you want a new kitchen and bathroom you have me 10,000 to do it and now I will raise your rent to 1200 because the taxes just went up.. It stupid!! If he throws in another 100 million, why not spend the additional 150-200 million and build the whole arena yourself??? I convinced that Wang will be left at the alter here and he is seriously looking to sell this team and get out of the Hockey business.
It makes sense if Wang can negotiate a fair deal. He's put money into the building so far. What would stop him now.

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09-22-2011, 08:11 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
That makes no sense, why would you throw in your own money to fix and update a place that is not yours. Here ill rent you my apartment for 1,000 a month but if you want a new kitchen and bathroom you have me 10,000 to do it and now I will raise your rent to 1200 because the taxes just went up.. It stupid!! If he throws in another 100 million, why not spend the additional 150-200 million and build the whole arena yourself??? I convinced that Wang will be left at the alter here and he is seriously looking to sell this team and get out of the Hockey business.
You are aware restaurants lease space.....and install equipment, decorate, construct bar and pass thru's and bathrooms and so on and so forth.....when they don't own the building.

Why?

Cost of doing business.

If you got a sweetheart lease for 30 years, would you invest in the building to make money with it or hold your breath til they fix it for you?

Now if you could make a money maker for $100M, why not spend double? Oh, because you're trying not to.

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09-22-2011, 08:18 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
Thats a great analogy but all this time did your catering hall friend give a huge percentage of all profits to the lease owner for his hard work? Charles Wang did for years as did the owners before him!!

After everything Nassau put this guy through and he still remains.. he must be filling his pockets secretly because he does not care about this team and its future
I didn't get to this before my last post, and he made the same point.....but what is up with your logic here?

What lease does Wang have now!!?????!! Great, he has a very, very good one. So now is it worth it? Damn right, it's a money maker whereas the LHP needed other buildings under the old lease and Gluckstern's building ideas needed other revenue sources. Wang has complete profit control for flat rate fees and rent.

I cannot STAND the Wanger, but part of me thinks he is doing well enough in the new contract that he is contemplating a small scale compromise. Forbes will show he's made a profit this coming issue in all likelihood. He's optimistic and locking up long term assets that will sell tickets for a long time (unlike DP).

So if his friend reworked the lease to favor the move, he surely had good cause for the plant expenses.

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09-22-2011, 08:20 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
As long as the Isles stay I could care less about anything else. Everyone will make their money somehow. Its just a matter of how everyone is going to get a piece of the pie. Wang knows what hes doing. The guy isnt a billionaire.
I had to stop it where I did for a reason.

The litigation at CA. He isn't a billionaire (he was very briefly - which caused a stream of litigation and stock plummeting) and the NVMC might be as grandiose as he can get, folks.

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09-22-2011, 08:21 PM
  #71
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ABLI's Plan Photos:

Under the proposal, the height of the arena would increase by as much as 25 feet, and there would be between 17,000 and 20,000 seats -- compared with about 16,000 now.
The site would include a minor league ballpark, a parking garage with room for 6,800 cars that would join the Coliseum and the Long Island Marriott, a new indoor ice rink for practice and public use, and 70,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space.




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09-22-2011, 08:34 PM
  #72
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I can not believe how laughable the parking situation is. I am sure that this is based on some sort of calculation but that garage looks HUGE.

I see this going through several iterations before a truly workable design is set forth, this is merely ground work. Having the retail/restaurant/entertainment venues across a see of parking seems ridiculous. A corridor approaching the colly would be much more successful IMHO. It would allow for cross circulation. These isolates monolithic things need to go.

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09-22-2011, 08:46 PM
  #73
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If it's going to be a renovation, it better look like a brand new building. Not just little fixes here and there. Now, those pictures are a good start and it's nice to see another plan come up this quickley, but there still needs to be work done. I for one wouldn't mind seeing an arena like the one in those pictures, but everything needs to be re-done (seats, concourses, rink etc.) If it ment a big renovation that would drastically improve the arena, I'm all for it if it keeps the Isles on Long Island.

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09-22-2011, 08:50 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
I can not believe how laughable the parking situation is. I am sure that this is based on some sort of calculation but that garage looks HUGE.

I see this going through several iterations before a truly workable design is set forth, this is merely ground work. Having the retail/restaurant/entertainment venues across a see of parking seems ridiculous. A corridor approaching the colly would be much more successful IMHO. It would allow for cross circulation. These isolates monolithic things need to go.
It actually works very well. Reminds me of the Honda Center. There's a nice series of places to hang out or eat around it, you can walk there and avoid the traffic rush and get out of the building in the process. The space looks beautiful. It's not far from I wanted to see all along. I also suggested a large building with all this within and strictly parking, but the idea here allows for gathering, hanging out - a plaza scenario.

I think the ABLI deserves some serious consideration but I wanna see more. That is a friggen nice addition to the neighborhood. And no BS with the schools, though they will have to fix the roads for more traffic (like everywhere on LI apparently).

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09-22-2011, 08:52 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islesfan3991 View Post
If it's going to be a renovation, it better look like a brand new building. Not just little fixes here and there. Now, those pictures are a good start and it's nice to see another plan come up this quickley, but there still needs to be work done. I for one wouldn't mind seeing an arena like the one in those pictures, but everything needs to be re-done (seats, concourses, rink etc.) If it ment a big renovation that would drastically improve the arena, I'm all for it if it keeps the Isles on Long Island.
The seats are a given. I believe they stated the seats, the concourse (widening) and shell/roof were what were being done. This draw-up looks about right, but I wasn't expecting it to be this simple.

I thought they were trying to grab the parking lot and build, build, build. This is simple and effective.

Now onto those two condensers being replaced.....wonder if you/someone can write them and ask?

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