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Another Arena Proposal....

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09-22-2011, 09:01 PM
  #76
potvins4cups
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No way in heck will the renovation cost just $100 million. anyone who thinks that and from what i see on here some people actually believe $100 million will suffice well those people are flat out ignorant. the exterior alone will cost $100 million.

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09-22-2011, 10:27 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by potvins4cups View Post
No way in heck will the renovation cost just $100 million. anyone who thinks that and from what i see on here some people actually believe $100 million will suffice well those people are flat out ignorant. the exterior alone will cost $100 million.
it's possible, as they're going to retain the exterior shell, float a new shell around it, removing all the glass partitions and open it up that way. That retains the main support and the exterior shell will support the raised roof and seating. There's gotta be a second floor to access the luxury boxes, so more concourse space and an escalator.

Now if they're gonna refurb the rest, not seriously remodel the lower level....it's not impossible just unfeasible. Definitely more than possible under $200M. That's seats, ice, remodeling, shell and roof, upper tier, luxury boxes.....yeah. But hey, if it gets done, they can say $100M all they want.

You're not suggesting it'll be $400M or whatever Wang tried for in August, are you? It'll be no where near that.

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09-23-2011, 12:53 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
At least two of the task force members' names I have seen are hold political offices in the Town of Hempstead and North Hempstead. So it is completely different than the LHP. This is obviously not a rookie developer trying to build a Metropolis is Suburbia (not that I am opposed to that). What can be built with the remaining $120M I believe is something similar to what Cordis Co. put together for the Fliers: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=171793



As far as we know this proposal is the closest to happen no matter how far anyone perceives it. Nothing official has come out about WP, besides people drawing correlations between the Mets Black Alternate Jersey and our Proposed Black Alternate Jersey (that may be the most ridiculous conclusion I have ever heard). Besides Ratner saying he doesn't think anything can happen in Nassau and they should move in to to BK nothing has been said on either side. To use your analogy this bar room idea didn't even make it to the napkin. No one has discussed if they are going to make the rink NHL compliant, if they do who pay for it, or what kind of tenant deal Wang is working out.

This is plan that has been put together by the 'right' people and keeps the Isles at home.

For those of you asking who will pay, where will the private financing come from? ABLI is a millionaire club for only the fatest of cat developers. They could possible use their collective wealth as collateral to receive the private loan that Wang doesn't want to get on his own. This is what these people do for a living, and based on their bank accounts they are good at what they do.
What is more ridiculous to think is that the current ABLI proposal has any real possiblity of being accepted by Wang with the Islanders playing in the renovated facility REGARDLESS of big wig politicians being involved. Wang owns the Long Island Mariott and the 7 acres around it thus he has to give ABLI the permission. 100M for renovating a 39 year old Coliseum and counting ? Dream on.

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09-23-2011, 01:03 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
What is more ridiculous to think is that the current ABLI proposal has any real possiblity of being accepted by Wang with the Islanders playing in the renovated facility REGARDLESS of big wig politicians being involved. Wang owns the Long Island Mariott and the 7 acres around it thus he has to give ABLI the permission. 100M for renovating a 39 year old Coliseum and counting ? Dream on.
For the work specified, the shell, 400's, luxury boxes and concourse....it's possible. Unlikely but possible. But can I ask any of the myriad of engineers or tradesmen what the age of the arena has to do when they're going to refurb it? Is it 100? 200? No, so let's cut the kiddy drama. 39 affects the electrical and plumbing somewhat. It it affected the framing or shell or foundation, you wouldn't be allowed in there.

So that said, the County owns the parking lot and not the Marriott. Thanks. Next?

Oh, the Marriott cocktail napkins look eerily similar to the Arena Club cocktail napkins.


Last edited by OlTimeHockey: 09-23-2011 at 01:15 AM.
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09-23-2011, 05:46 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
What is more ridiculous to think is that the current ABLI proposal has any real possiblity of being accepted by Wang with the Islanders playing in the renovated facility REGARDLESS of big wig politicians being involved. Wang owns the Long Island Mariott and the 7 acres around it thus he has to give ABLI the permission. 100M for renovating a 39 year old Coliseum and counting ? Dream on.
I think instead of segregating the program of the retail/restaurant/entertainment (lets say retail on the east side, bars and restaurants on the west side). They should pepper the complexes with all three. It would make the space feel that much more 'natural', urban. Can you imagine the aleatory spaces?

This will truly be a sports destination!

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09-23-2011, 07:28 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
For the work specified, the shell, 400's, luxury boxes and concourse....it's possible. Unlikely but possible. But can I ask any of the myriad of engineers or tradesmen what the age of the arena has to do when they're going to refurb it? Is it 100? 200? No, so let's cut the kiddy drama. 39 affects the electrical and plumbing somewhat. It it affected the framing or shell or foundation, you wouldn't be allowed in there.

So that said, the County owns the parking lot and not the Marriott. Thanks. Next?

Oh, the Marriott cocktail napkins look eerily similar to the Arena Club cocktail napkins.
Honestly the most serious upgrade will probably be the Mechanical system. The plumbing will like be re-roughed(especially if there is any layout changes) but the main runs should be fine. The water efficient fixtures (urinals & WC's not to mention motion sensor sinks), will cut water consumption and waste. Replacing mains back to the sewers (excavation, new runs, patch back) is what would drive that cost.

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09-23-2011, 11:07 AM
  #82
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good luck building that with only 100 million!!! I cant wait to see the cost overruns be placed on the tax payer and it is back to the drawing board for all

Wang is a fool if he takes any part of this!!!

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09-23-2011, 11:13 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
good luck building that with only 100 million!!! I cant wait to see the cost overruns be placed on the tax payer and it is back to the drawing board for all

Wang is a fool if he takes any part of this!!!
I think 100M may mean that ABLI will pay 50% of the renovation and let Wang pick up the other half. however, who will pay for the cost overruns? LIkely ABLI wants 50% of the revenues of the Coliseum if they're willing to pay 50% of the renovation cost as well as 50% of the development? Will Wang really go for this development given that he may lose 50% of the revenues to ABLI in the Coliseum as well as in the restricted development courtesy of TOH? I think he is an idiot to agree to this plan with the Islanders playing in the renovated facility.

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09-23-2011, 11:21 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Ziggy16 View Post
ABLI's Plan Photos:

Under the proposal, the height of the arena would increase by as much as 25 feet, and there would be between 17,000 and 20,000 seats -- compared with about 16,000 now.
The site would include a minor league ballpark, a parking garage with room for 6,800 cars that would join the Coliseum and the Long Island Marriott, a new indoor ice rink for practice and public use, and 70,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space.
The Lighthouse minus the pretty canal and the two towers, right?

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09-23-2011, 11:56 AM
  #85
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The Lighthouse minus the pretty canal and the two towers, right?
They bagged paradise and put up a parking garage.

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09-23-2011, 12:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
I think 100M may mean that ABLI will pay 50% of the renovation and let Wang pick up the other half. however, who will pay for the cost overruns? LIkely ABLI wants 50% of the revenues of the Coliseum if they're willing to pay 50% of the renovation cost as well as 50% of the development? Will Wang really go for this development given that he may lose 50% of the revenues to ABLI in the Coliseum as well as in the restricted development courtesy of TOH? I think he is an idiot to agree to this plan with the Islanders playing in the renovated facility.
THIS!!!

I have a serious gut feeling that Charles Wang will sell the team and Jay Jacobs and his group will buy it. The Islanders are just a mere cog to the grand piece of the puzzle.

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09-23-2011, 12:40 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
THIS!!!

I have a serious gut feeling that Charles Wang will sell the team and Jay Jacobs and his group will buy it. The Islanders are just a mere cog to the grand piece of the puzzle.
And then the whole process will begin again...for the 3rd time!

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09-23-2011, 01:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
I think 100M may mean that ABLI will pay 50% of the renovation and let Wang pick up the other half. however, who will pay for the cost overruns? LIkely ABLI wants 50% of the revenues of the Coliseum if they're willing to pay 50% of the renovation cost as well as 50% of the development? Will Wang really go for this development given that he may lose 50% of the revenues to ABLI in the Coliseum as well as in the restricted development courtesy of TOH? I think he is an idiot to agree to this plan with the Islanders playing in the renovated facility.
ABLI gets to develop the other areas by picking up the $100M tab in all likelihood. The lease agreement between Wang and the County is not Wangs or ABLI's to mess with. In all essence, Wang has control of the property and can, with approval, SUB LEASE space. Now what deal would benefit ABLI and Wang? A favorable rent.

The $100M, EVEN IF WANG PAYS OVERRUNS, is tax deductible and can be made up in revenue with this project in full swing.

But your post reads like an assumpotion turns to a certainty turns to melodrama which turns to a witch hunt. Just sayin'.

Wang does not have to do one thing and can negotiate it to his terms as much as they will cede. And it is all well within Kate Murray's edict for the LHP.

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09-23-2011, 01:04 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
Honestly the most serious upgrade will probably be the Mechanical system. The plumbing will like be re-roughed(especially if there is any layout changes) but the main runs should be fine. The water efficient fixtures (urinals & WC's not to mention motion sensor sinks), will cut water consumption and waste. Replacing mains back to the sewers (excavation, new runs, patch back) is what would drive that cost.
And also give a push to remodel....water efficiency, green lighting, etc. as the space will be open window and all. I can imagine a roof terrace and the trees and all would be played by pols as "urban renewal" or something...."Hempstead and Uniondale needs."

It's quite sensible.

But you are spot on with the plumbing. The entire pipework will have to be inspected naturally, but we're talking a repair of 30 year old plumbing, not 130. Does anyone implying any more tacit drama have an opinion, Steve or other?

And while we're at it, electrical can and will use existing conduit and run new wires. There may be new conduit laid for digital, surely, but the costs are quite low for that as well with the existing just being added to. The concrete need not be dismantled outside but covered up with some additions to the top of the building being made entrances for the luxury boxes and 400 section - a lot like Staples Center. How awesome would it be if they got a Nathans and outside porch for smokers and drinkers on the roof like TSC has? (yes, even in February it beats the hell outta the outdoor portapotty setup)

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09-23-2011, 01:05 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
ABLI gets to develop the other areas by picking up the $100M tab in all likelihood. The lease agreement between Wang and the County is not Wangs or ABLI's to mess with. In all essence, Wang has control of the property and can, with approval, SUB LEASE space. Now what deal would benefit ABLI and Wang? A favorable rent.

The $100M, EVEN IF WANG PAYS OVERRUNS, is tax deductible and can be made up in revenue with this project in full swing.

But your post reads like an assumpotion turns to a certainty turns to melodrama which turns to a witch hunt. Just sayin'.

Wang does not have to do one thing and can negotiate it to his terms as much as they will cede. And it is all well within Kate Murray's edict for the LHP.
The current sublease runs out in 2015. No guarantee the current sublease will remain intact after that. The only way this will work is if ABLI buys the Islanders.

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09-23-2011, 01:49 PM
  #91
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And then the whole process will begin again...for the 3rd time!
I dont know about the inner dealings of Nassau politics nor do I claim to know but with Jay Jacobs leading the charge and his kids park under neath a vast gas shale land primed for fracking I see him and a group of investors buying the whole area and doing whatever they want with it. They will give a few suggestions and renovated or new coliseum will be in place. I think Wang is the odd man out here.. He will get paid for his troubles and sell the team. Why else would he still be working with nassau county??

You think Steinbrenner family would deal with this nonsense? Wilpons? Any sane Billionaire would of said screw you Nassau, Im going to Queens back in 2008 or have serious talks with Ratner back in 2009 before the plans were finalized.

He is selling the team to the next group of people... gauranteed!!!

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09-24-2011, 03:09 AM
  #92
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The current sublease runs out in 2015. No guarantee the current sublease will remain intact after that. The only way this will work is if ABLI buys the Islanders.
Yeah....

Or Wang renews the lease if offered or uses the threat of relocation to sign a new one. Will SMG get their old deal? NO. That would be insane and any politician would get hell. Will Wang continue to manage the Coliseum? Odds are yes, as the County mismanaged it and will not want to be in the hot seat again.

But hey, whatever argument you want. It's foolish to think Wang won't get a good deal with his leverage only increasing. The County cannot lose the Isles and then the Coliseum. The revenue loss would be astounding.

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09-24-2011, 08:51 AM
  #93
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Yeah....

Or Wang renews the lease if offered or uses the threat of relocation to sign a new one. Will SMG get their old deal? NO. That would be insane and any politician would get hell. Will Wang continue to manage the Coliseum? Odds are yes, as the County mismanaged it and will not want to be in the hot seat again.

But hey, whatever argument you want. It's foolish to think Wang won't get a good deal with his leverage only increasing. The County cannot lose the Isles and then the Coliseum. The revenue loss would be astounding.
This. They HAVE TO know how much it would hurt the County if the isles do end up moving.

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09-24-2011, 08:54 AM
  #94
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I prefer a renovation to a new building, honestly.

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09-24-2011, 02:53 PM
  #95
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I prefer a renovation to a new building, honestly.
Same here. I wanna be able to go partially deaf when the next big goal happens - a la Uwe Krupp/Shawn Bates.

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09-24-2011, 03:07 PM
  #96
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Yeah....

Or Wang renews the lease if offered or uses the threat of relocation to sign a new one. Will SMG get their old deal? NO. That would be insane and any politician would get hell. Will Wang continue to manage the Coliseum? Odds are yes, as the County mismanaged it and will not want to be in the hot seat again.

But hey, whatever argument you want. It's foolish to think Wang won't get a good deal with his leverage only increasing. The County cannot lose the Isles and then the Coliseum. The revenue loss would be astounding.
If this jerk-off of a deal is accepted by Wang, then how is ABLI going to make their money if Wang signs a very favorable lease like he has now? ABLI is going to spend 347 M in developing the Nassau Hub, with 100M going into renovating the Coliseum.

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09-24-2011, 03:15 PM
  #97
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Yeah....

Or Wang renews the lease if offered or uses the threat of relocation to sign a new one. Will SMG get their old deal? NO. That would be insane and any politician would get hell. Will Wang continue to manage the Coliseum? Odds are yes, as the County mismanaged it and will not want to be in the hot seat again.

But hey, whatever argument you want. It's foolish to think Wang won't get a good deal with his leverage only increasing. The County cannot lose the Isles and then the Coliseum. The revenue loss would be astounding.
But the TOH's restrictive zoning will not likely be touched. With private development as the only option, another deal can trump the TOH guidelines and Nassau could be holding an empty bag.

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09-24-2011, 03:17 PM
  #98
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If this jerk-off of a deal is accepted by Wang, then how is ABLI going to make their money if Wang signs a very favorable lease like he has now? ABLI is going to spend 347 M in developing the Nassau Hub, with 100M going into renovating the Coliseum.
They open up commercial enterprises and peddle goods or services for money. They try to do it a lot for 30 years.

The rest should be easy to figure out : spend to make. The rest is haggling over the pie. Does ABLI get no rent for 30 years? Sounds reasonable. More than reasonable. Does ABLI control parking with the investment they made? Sounds reasonable, but then maybe Wang wants a nominal rent.

How many cars park each year? 10k per event, 140 events a year, $10 a pop, 30 years = $420M. Those prices are lowball, and the events may be more or less, but That's a thought. Now add the gross sales of the businesses. Is it worth ABLI's money to foot the bill for the new arena? Even if they own none of it? Ayup! Quite worth it to ensure a space in a very lucrative area.


but it's not Queens.....

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09-24-2011, 03:20 PM
  #99
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But the TOH's restrictive zoning will not likely be touched. With private development as the only option, another deal can trump the TOH guidelines and Nassau could be holding an empty bag.


Grasp one or two.

Did you remember the Murray Plan? This is well within her set guidelines in the counter proposal. So......what?

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09-24-2011, 03:39 PM
  #100
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Grasp one or two.

Did you remember the Murray Plan? This is well within her set guidelines in the counter proposal. So......what?
NOT economically viable for the Islanders.

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