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Nathan Beaulieu NHL Ready?

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09-25-2011, 02:50 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
Some players are too good for the Juniors. You don't get better at anything unless you challenge/push yourself to the next level.
The way I look at it is like the following:
Player is too good skill-wise/lighting it up, but physically not developed = stay in juniors
Player is physically ready to play against men, but mentally/skill-wise not ready = juniors
If a player is physically ready and putting up the points/schooling his peers = NHL ready.

There are exceptions. No doubt. I mean, look at Skinner, but that's far from the norm.

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09-25-2011, 02:53 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
Tavares ?
Maybe. But that's a different situation altogether. The topic was more around the rule of drafted CHL players prohibited from playing in the AHL.

With that in mind, I'd say Tavares wasn't strong or quick enough to handle the AHL as a 16 or 17-year old. The extra dominant years in juniors allowed him to grow into himself, even if his offensive production wasn't challenged all that much.


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Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
Well, it's impossible to say really because you never know whether or not a player has reached their potential or not. Who knows how going to the AHL or skipping right to the NHL could have affected any one player's development. I just can't imagine, say RNH gaining much from staying in the CHL. But he's probably too small for the NHL right now.

I'm not sports psychologist, I never played a particularly high level of hockey either, so I wouldn't know. It just seems like there should be a mid-level for kids looking for a challenge without getting annihilated every night in the NHL.

I'm reiterating a little of what the poster above me has said, which is that players like RNH need time to physically develop in juniors and gain some more consistency in their games. I think you're right that being challenged is fundamental to growth, but there are some natural growing periods too (such as, physical growth), and pushing the skill level while the growing is still happening physically isn't necessarily optimal.

For players who are physically there and talent-wise aren't quite good enough yet, then the AHL is ideal for them. However, bumping the star CHL players to the AHL at 19-years old removes a lot of the fan appeal of the CHL. Consequently, it would lose money and deteriorate as a strong developmental league.


Last edited by Mike8: 09-25-2011 at 03:00 PM.
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09-25-2011, 02:57 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Maybe. But that's a different situation altogether. The topic was more around the rule of drafted CHL players prohibited from playing in the AHL.

With that in mind, I'd say Tavares wasn't strong or quick enough to handle the AHL as a 16 or 17-year old. The extra dominant years in juniors allowed him to grow into himself, even if his offensive production wasn't challenged all that much.
That is a good answer that I agree on ... was just trying to find someone to fight back at you anyway

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09-25-2011, 03:18 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
The way I look at it is like the following:
Player is too good skill-wise/lighting it up, but physically not developed = stay in juniors
Player is physically ready to play against men, but mentally/skill-wise not ready = juniors
If a player is physically ready and putting up the points/schooling his peers = NHL ready.

There are exceptions. No doubt. I mean, look at Skinner, but that's far from the norm.
You're right. I just think it would be good to have the AHL as an option for players if they/the organization that drafted them if they want it. Maybe if Lats had spent 2005-2006 in the AHL instead of the Q, he might have ended up being more of the player we wanted him to be. But it could have just as easily ended up doing nothing.

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09-25-2011, 03:26 PM
  #205
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I think he could play in the NHL but he shouldn't, the kid has a great cycle and is solid but I doubt he can handle big minutes. He would probably end up taking a step back and playing on the bottom pairing. Better to send him down for another season and have maybe a call up if nessesary.

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09-25-2011, 03:48 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
You're right. I just think it would be good to have the AHL as an option for players if they/the organization that drafted them if they want it. Maybe if Lats had spent 2005-2006 in the AHL instead of the Q, he might have ended up being more of the player we wanted him to be. But it could have just as easily ended up doing nothing.
Lats was misused imo. And he wasn't exactly the most co-operative here. Plus I forgot about education. When CHL players stick around, the league pays for their tuition, etc. Now I'm sure they can afford to pay after signing ELCs, but the contract money can go into accommodation, car, investment, etc.

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09-25-2011, 04:02 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
Some players are too good for the Juniors. You don't get better at anything unless you challenge/push yourself to the next level.
I hope you aren't implying that Beaulieu is one of these. While I'm thrilled the Habs were able to snag him at 17, and he's had a good camp, he is definitely not too good for Junior hockey. This coming from someone who has seen Nathan play since he broke in to the Q, many, many times. Even last year he was on the second pairing in SJ behind Despres and Gelinas, and while he keeps getting better he by no means dominated the Q last year.

There is absolutely no problem/dilemma with where to send Nathan Beaulieu. Send him back to SJ, where he'll be on the top pairing of an odds-on favorite to head to the Memorial Cup again this season. Heck, even Jonathan Huberdeau, 3rd overall, is likely to be returning to SJ. The players Nathan will be playing with in Junior will only help his development.

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09-25-2011, 05:47 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
I hope you aren't implying that Beaulieu is one of these. While I'm thrilled the Habs were able to snag him at 17, and he's had a good camp, he is definitely not too good for Junior hockey. This coming from someone who has seen Nathan play since he broke in to the Q, many, many times. Even last year he was on the second pairing in SJ behind Despres and Gelinas, and while he keeps getting better he by no means dominated the Q last year.

There is absolutely no problem/dilemma with where to send Nathan Beaulieu. Send him back to SJ, where he'll be on the top pairing of an odds-on favorite to head to the Memorial Cup again this season. Heck, even Jonathan Huberdeau, 3rd overall, is likely to be returning to SJ. The players Nathan will be playing with in Junior will only help his development.
I think he's talking in general, but you're right. And maybe he'll make the WJC roster too!

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09-25-2011, 07:18 PM
  #209
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Say what you will about his defensive game, but man he can pass! Every pass is tape to tape no matter the speed of the rush.

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09-25-2011, 07:31 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
Say what you will about his defensive game, but man he can pass! Every pass is tape to tape no matter the speed of the rush.
He also made a pylon out of Shawn Thornton twice

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09-25-2011, 07:32 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
I hope you aren't implying that Beaulieu is one of these. While I'm thrilled the Habs were able to snag him at 17, and he's had a good camp, he is definitely not too good for Junior hockey. This coming from someone who has seen Nathan play since he broke in to the Q, many, many times. Even last year he was on the second pairing in SJ behind Despres and Gelinas, and while he keeps getting better he by no means dominated the Q last year.

There is absolutely no problem/dilemma with where to send Nathan Beaulieu. Send him back to SJ, where he'll be on the top pairing of an odds-on favorite to head to the Memorial Cup again this season. Heck, even Jonathan Huberdeau, 3rd overall, is likely to be returning to SJ. The players Nathan will be playing with in Junior will only help his development.
He played with Despres on the 1st pair the last 2 years in SJ.

I agree that he should be sent back to junior and soon...that's where he belongs, though with his skill level he could probably play in the NHl and not look out of place...but we want him to develop as an impact d-man not just one who tries not to screw up.

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09-25-2011, 08:59 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He played with Despres on the 1st pair the last 2 years in SJ.

I agree that he should be sent back to junior and soon...that's where he belongs, though with his skill level he could probably play in the NHl and not look out of place...but we want him to develop as an impact d-man not just one who tries not to screw up.
No, Beaulieu was playing on the 2nd pair. Després was with Gélinas. That guy knows his stuff, he's a Seadogs fan, what about you?

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09-25-2011, 09:54 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He played with Despres on the 1st pair the last 2 years in SJ.I agree that he should be sent back to junior and soon...that's where he belongs, though with his skill level he could probably play in the NHl and not look out of place...but we want him to develop as an impact d-man not just one who tries not to screw up.
My bad, he played with Despres all year, you're right. Brain cramp there, what I was getting at was that he was 3rd on the depth chart behind Despres and Gelinas last season. This year he'll be at the top, it will be interesting to see who he's paired with.

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09-25-2011, 09:58 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
No, Beaulieu was playing on the 2nd pair. Després was with Gélinas. That guy knows his stuff, he's a Seadogs fan, what about you?

I am a Sea Dogs season ticket holder, you are both wrong. Beaulieau was playing on the 2nd pairing with Kevin Gagne, and that will be the top pairing this year I would say. Despres was on the first pair with Pierre Durepos, we didn't even get Gelinas until after the Christmas trade period, at which time he played on the 3rd pair with Gabriel Bourret. The first PP unit was Despres and Beaulieau.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
My bad, he played with Despres all year, you're right. Brain cramp there, what I was getting at was that he was 3rd on the depth chart behind Despres and Gelinas last season. This year he'll be at the top, it will be interesting to see who he's paired with.
I would also say Gelinas wasn't out 2nd best defensemen last year. I would say Nate was our 2nd best behind Despres.

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09-25-2011, 10:20 PM
  #215
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What they should do, though, is give markov the first 9 games off, and play Beaulieu instead. We might not win those games, but that would be very good for the kid.

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09-25-2011, 10:30 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
What they should do, though, is give markov the first 9 games off, and play Beaulieu instead. We might not win those games, but that would be very good for the kid.
That's exactly what I'm hoping for aswell.

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09-25-2011, 10:33 PM
  #217
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I don't think there's any issue whatsoever that he's going back to Junior, as he should. I hope the same is true of Gallagher.

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09-25-2011, 11:14 PM
  #218
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I don't think there's any issue whatsoever that he's going back to Junior, as he should. I hope the same is true of Gallagher.
We still should keep their # on speeddial...

...just in case. We have ennough depth to avoid it, but they are both reliable Plan C.

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09-26-2011, 12:47 AM
  #219
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Anyone else think he had a really good game? Probably one of the best playing D-Man out there other then PK who is a given better offensive D.

Anyways Opinions?
The kid defenitely have skill. But not nhl ready. He made some good play, but bad decision too, which is normal for a 19 year old kid. No need to rush, it will be time to freak out when Markov will be out by december

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Originally Posted by dmcdougall View Post
I am a Sea Dogs season ticket holder, you are both wrong. Beaulieau was playing on the 2nd pairing with Kevin Gagne, and that will be the top pairing this year I would say. Despres was on the first pair with Pierre Durepos, we didn't even get Gelinas until after the Christmas trade period, at which time he played on the 3rd pair with Gabriel Bourret. The first PP unit was Despres and Beaulieau.
Speaking of Despres what the hell happened to him during the Pens camp? Despres>Alexandre Picard


Last edited by overlords: 09-26-2011 at 01:12 AM.
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09-26-2011, 12:53 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
What they should do, though, is give markov the first 9 games off, and play Beaulieu instead. We might not win those games, but that would be very good for the kid.
this is where i disagree with you. every single game will be important this year, every single loss puts that much closer to golfing early this year.

the laffs, rangers, devils, sabres all have improved enough to make the 4-8 playoff spot a crapshoot

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09-26-2011, 08:22 AM
  #221
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If he were drafted by the Oilers their fans would be going nuts right now. They'd have another D to start the season. Since he's drafted by a contender he'll take a few years to bulk up and then he'll get his shot. Likely towards the end of his first season in Hamilton. We'll probably need him for an injury call up a la Subban.

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09-26-2011, 09:09 AM
  #222
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Coaching needs to wake up

Hey there,

I'll share my view of Beaulieu's play and how management and coaching needs to wake the hell up to not rush this kid in the lion's den.

1st, I'll say he has no reason to return in QJMHL, he's too good to return there.

I'll just say that coach Martin needs to talk to him and tell him he dosen't need to impress anymore, that he'd better concentrate on a easier game, to minimize errors and turnovers and to let the forwards move the puck in the offensive zone. Basically, I find he's trying to do too much, and that's where coaching and management have to come into the equation to cool him down and show him some confidence. Like, tell him he'll stay in the big club on the third pairing and PP unit, but that he needs to cut stupid mistakes and concentrate on defense first at 5 vs 5.

2nd, coaching and management needs to put Spacek 7th D to keep Yemelin in the top 6. Both Yemelin and Beaulieu are better than Spacegoat, by a mile. Both make a better first pass and are more physical. The only ting Spacek has is good positionning when he's back in form, but he's so slow and makes poor decisions with the puck, and our rookies are much quicker and have a lot more talent, it's so obvious, and positionning can be taught with good coaching.

In the end, Markov is injured and Beaulieu / Yemelin are too good to not keep them in the NHL. Here are my pairings for the beginning of season :

Subban - Gill
Georges - Yemelin
Beaulieu - Spacek
Weber (AHL when Markov comes back, Spacek 7th D)

PP:
Subban - Beaulieu
Georges - Yemelin

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09-26-2011, 09:25 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
Hey there,

I'll share my view of Beaulieu's play and how management and coaching needs to wake the hell up to not rush this kid in the lion's den.

1st, I'll say he has no reason to return in QJMHL, he's too good to return there.

I'll just say that coach Martin needs to talk to him and tell him he dosen't need to impress anymore, that he'd better concentrate on a easier game, to minimize errors and turnovers and to let the forwards move the puck in the offensive zone. Basically, I find he's trying to do too much, and that's where coaching and management have to come into the equation to cool him down and show him some confidence. Like, tell him he'll stay in the big club on the third pairing and PP unit, but that he needs to cut stupid mistakes and concentrate on defense first at 5 vs 5.

2nd, coaching and management needs to put Spacek 7th D to keep Yemelin in the top 6. Both Yemelin and Beaulieu are better than Spacegoat, by a mile. Both make a better first pass and are more physical. The only ting Spacek has is good positionning when he's back in form, but he's so slow and makes poor decisions with the puck, and our rookies are much quicker and have a lot more talent, it's so obvious, and positionning can be taught with good coaching.

In the end, Markov is injured and Beaulieu / Yemelin are too good to not keep them in the NHL. Here are my pairings for the beginning of season :

Subban - Gill
Georges - Yemelin
Beaulieu - Spacek
Weber (AHL when Markov comes back, Spacek 7th D)

PP:
Subban - Beaulieu
Georges - Yemelin
So, not rushing beaulieu in the lion's den is keeping him in the NHL at 18? Makes sense.


Guys, he's not ready. He makes a bunch of defensive mistake. Don't get me wrong I think he is Markov replacement in a few years but he is not ready yet.

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09-26-2011, 09:26 AM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
Hey there,

I'll share my view of Beaulieu's play and how management and coaching needs to wake the hell up to not rush this kid in the lion's den.

1st, I'll say he has no reason to return in QJMHL, he's too good to return there.

I'll just say that coach Martin needs to talk to him and tell him he dosen't need to impress anymore, that he'd better concentrate on a easier game, to minimize errors and turnovers and to let the forwards move the puck in the offensive zone. Basically, I find he's trying to do too much, and that's where coaching and management have to come into the equation to cool him down and show him some confidence. Like, tell him he'll stay in the big club on the third pairing and PP unit, but that he needs to cut stupid mistakes and concentrate on defense first at 5 vs 5.

2nd, coaching and management needs to put Spacek 7th D to keep Yemelin in the top 6. Both Yemelin and Beaulieu are better than Spacegoat, by a mile. Both make a better first pass and are more physical. The only ting Spacek has is good positionning when he's back in form, but he's so slow and makes poor decisions with the puck, and our rookies are much quicker and have a lot more talent, it's so obvious, and positionning can be taught with good coaching.

In the end, Markov is injured and Beaulieu / Yemelin are too good to not keep them in the NHL. Here are my pairings for the beginning of season :

Subban - Gill
Georges - Yemelin
Beaulieu - Spacek
Weber (AHL when Markov comes back, Spacek 7th D)

PP:
Subban - Beaulieu
Georges - Yemelin
While I understand your point, I believe Beaulieu will not be on this club. Firstly, any player who is as fancy as Beaulieu is does not understand how the pro game is played. He is risky and almost arrogant. Anyone remember PK? And that was after 1 pro season. This kid is going to be a star player, but he is NOT ready for the NHL, even if Martin and co work with him everyday. Young cocky players need to learn the ropes and learn that not everything will just fall into their laps.

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09-26-2011, 09:27 AM
  #225
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He needs AHL seasoning unless we hit a crisis, and that is a point I won't budge.

So Junior -->AHL--> NHL

2 years. He'll have matured, and so will have Subban. So the position of "young ambitious offensive dman" will be available for Beaulieu.

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