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PS #2 - 09.23.2011 | New York Rangers @ New Jersey Devils | 7:00 PM - MSG (HD)

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Old
09-24-2011, 12:58 AM
  #801
I Am Chariot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
You can say that Kovy is offensive minded all you want but Gabby is the least engaging player I've ever seen so he doesn't scream selke either.
If I had to pick between Gabby and Kovy I'll take Gabby. He's the better overal player.

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09-24-2011, 12:59 AM
  #802
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Kovy is also not made of glass.
Lol that's true....but he has a lifetime contract.

All things equal and healthy.....I take Gabby.

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09-24-2011, 01:04 AM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Kovalchuk is more capable of beating three defenders by himself and scoring a highlight goal. Gaborik is more of a right place right time, give and go, smart, quick plays type of player which happens to fit perfectly with his new center. Kovalchuk is certainly more dynamic but hes also a bit of a prima Donna and he doesn't seem like a leader / winner to me. I can see Gaborik lifting the cup but I can't picture kovy doing it. Just my two cents
Kovy might be the most 1 way player in the NHL .... Maybe the World. Guy plays half the game and never back checks. He's definitely not the guy to set the tone of a team. It was a disaster in Atlanta and it will be a disaster in NJ... If they continue to go that way

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09-24-2011, 01:07 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Kovy might be the most 1 way player in the NHL .... Maybe the World. Guy plays half the game and never back checks. He's definitely not the guy to set the tone of a team. It was a disaster in Atlanta and it will be a disaster in NJ... If they continue to go that way
He sure has one heck of a shot though. So at least he does that 1 thing about as well as anyone.

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09-24-2011, 01:07 AM
  #805
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
If I'm not mistaken, Richards scored the last goal right? When they showed that replay during the game, I thought I saw Bell's shot deflect off of Richards' stick. If it was Richards' goal, why hasn't it been corrected in the boxscore?
i thought he tipped it too but the scoring was never changed so its still a bell goal...not sure if they couldn't tell, thought it went off a devil or didn't care cause its preseason lol

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09-24-2011, 01:07 AM
  #806
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Dubinsky Richards Gaborik
Boyle Anisimov Callahan
Thomas Stepan Fedotenko
Avery Rupp Prust

Staal Girardi
Mcdonagh Erixon
Del Zotto Sauer
Eminger

Lundqvist
Biron

That's what I'd like to see. Realistically though, Wolski will be in the lineup and even zuccarello and hagelin have better shots at making the team than Thomas right now. I just think this is such a lethal and balanced lineup. No holes. No breaks for the opposition. No easy matchups.

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09-24-2011, 01:09 AM
  #807
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
He sure has one heck of a shot though. So at least he does that 1 thing about as well as anyone.
Maybe the best one timer in the NHL....it's frightful when he sets up.

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09-24-2011, 01:10 AM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Kovy might be the most 1 way player in the NHL .... Maybe the World. Guy plays half the game and never back checks. He's definitely not the guy to set the tone of a team. It was a disaster in Atlanta and it will be a disaster in NJ... If they continue to go that way
Gabby plays like he misplaced his oil can. What a frustrating dude.

The difference between Kovalchuk and Gabby is agility. Kovalchuk's is freakishly strong and Gabby's is puzzlingly nonexistant.


Last edited by MSG the place to be*: 09-24-2011 at 01:25 AM.
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09-24-2011, 01:14 AM
  #809
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To anyone who watched the game today: Does it look like Gaborik has his old wrist shot back?

He seemed to lose it after the should injury last season and it never seemed right afterwards.

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09-24-2011, 02:04 AM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
I would take Gabby over Kovalchuk Without hesitation. Kovy is a dynamic scorer but he will never play a 2 way game.

Infact considering the Devils being built around Brodeur, he's a terrible fit for their franchise.
First of all, the Devils aren't built around Brodeur. Second of all, who cares if he plays a 2 way game or not? If you have a good team, you have a good goaltender and good team defense. You sacrifice a little defense to have a HUGE upgrade offensively. Yes, it'd be better if he could do both, but I'd rather have the virtual lock for 40 goals and ability to create his own offense any time he chooses over the average defensive contributions that Gaborik provides along with his complete reliance offensively on the ability of a secondary player putting him in position to score and his injury history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Kovy might be the most 1 way player in the NHL .... Maybe the World. Guy plays half the game and never back checks. He's definitely not the guy to set the tone of a team. It was a disaster in Atlanta and it will be a disaster in NJ... If they continue to go that way
Yeah. It was a disaster in Atlanta because of him. Not the lack of a good goaltender for the duration of his time there. Not the lack of a stable group of defenseman for the duration of his time there. Not the lack of depth at forward while he was there. Not the lack of good coaching while he was there. Not the horrendous general manager who ran the team the entire time. Not the incredibly cheap ownership group that owned the team the entire time. No, it was the fault of the guy who, over the last six seasons, scored more goals than all but one player.

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09-24-2011, 02:32 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
First of all, the Devils aren't built around Brodeur. Second of all, who cares if he plays a 2 way game or not? If you have a good team, you have a good goaltender and good team defense. You sacrifice a little defense to have a HUGE upgrade offensively. Yes, it'd be better if he could do both, but I'd rather have the virtual lock for 40 goals and ability to create his own offense any time he chooses over the average defensive contributions that Gaborik provides along with his complete reliance offensively on the ability of a secondary player putting him in position to score and his injury history.



Yeah. It was a disaster in Atlanta because of him. Not the lack of a good goaltender for the duration of his time there. Not the lack of a stable group of defenseman for the duration of his time there. Not the lack of depth at forward while he was there. Not the lack of good coaching while he was there. Not the horrendous general manager who ran the team the entire time. Not the incredibly cheap ownership group that owned the team the entire time. No, it was the fault of the guy who, over the last six seasons, scored more goals than all but one player.
I said I wasn't going to go in depth on my preference for Kovy over Gabby earlier, but this pretty much does it justice. I also think the difference between Kovalchuk and Gaborik defensively is not nearly as large everyone else wants to make it out to be. Kovalchuk has shown that he can play defense and backcheck effectively, but as you mentioned, you sacrifice on the defensive end (especially when you're a defense oriented, well built team) to allow for a virtual 40 goal lock.

Over their careers (and I don't care what Gabby would have done 'if not for injuries' - injuries are part of who the player is):

IK: 702 games: 369 goals, 702 points.
MG: 640 games: 283 goals, 571 points.

Gabby's also a little over a year older and started his career a year earlier. And while Minnesota was never an offensive powerhouse, they at least made the playoffs a couple of times. Atlanta, on the other hand, was... Atlanta. Kovy's got 86 more goals in 62 more games, and is a career PPG player. Not saying Gaborik isn't a world class offensive talent, but considering you don't sign either guy for his 'two-way' contributions, Kovalchuk is just better. He's the more dangerous player and he doesn't need any help.

41 players in the history of hockey have scored 500 goals. Kovalchuk will be at 400 at 29 years old when the 2011-12 season ends. Gaborik would need to average 37 goals per year, for the next 6 years to hit 500. Kovy is pretty much a lock.


Last edited by SERE 24: 09-24-2011 at 02:37 AM.
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09-24-2011, 04:00 AM
  #812
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Originally Posted by Broseph stalin View Post
Good game. Opposite lines of Wednesdays games. This time it was the Rangers with more vets in the line up with the AHL goalies while the Devils played most of their rookies with their good goalie(who is getting old and needs the time to warm up).

But like last time the vets come out on top by 1.
Oh jesus.

I'm astonished this gem of a post hasn't bee quoted yet.

Vets vs. rookies? You mean like Kovalchuk, Tedenby, Josefsen, Salvador, Brodeur (all game), Greene, etc?

Wednesday night the Devils NHL team beat the Rangers junior club by 1 goal in overtime. Tonight, the Rangers squad, missing 2 of their top 6 forwards, their top D pairing, and their starting goalie, beat the Devils NHL squad, minus 2 of their top 6 forwards and Henrik Tallinder.

The moment the Rangers put in Johnson and the Devils left Marty in this game became a joke.

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09-24-2011, 06:03 AM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Dubinsky Richards Gaborik
Boyle Anisimov Callahan
Thomas Stepan Fedotenko
Avery Rupp Prust

Staal Girardi
Mcdonagh Erixon
Del Zotto Sauer
Eminger

Lundqvist
Biron

That's what I'd like to see. Realistically though, Wolski will be in the lineup and even zuccarello and hagelin have better shots at making the team than Thomas right now. I just think this is such a lethal and balanced lineup. No holes. No breaks for the opposition. No easy matchups.
Christian Thomas?? Break-up Sauer & McD???

First off, Thomas is no where near NHL ready. He's 2 - 3 years away. He's not nearly strong enough at this stage of his development. The kid needs to work on strength & conditioning. Even after that, he's still not a lock to break into the NHL.

Torts is clearly not breaking up the McD & Sauer tandem. When a pair works so well together, you leave it alone. Its a coach's dream to have two D-men mesh so well with one another.

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09-24-2011, 06:36 AM
  #814
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
First of all, the Devils aren't built around Brodeur. Second of all, who cares if he plays a 2 way game or not? If you have a good team, you have a good goaltender and good team defense. You sacrifice a little defense to have a HUGE upgrade offensively. Yes, it'd be better if he could do both, but I'd rather have the virtual lock for 40 goals and ability to create his own offense any time he chooses over the average defensive contributions that Gaborik provides along with his complete reliance offensively on the ability of a secondary player putting him in position to score and his injury history.



Yeah. It was a disaster in Atlanta because of him. Not the lack of a good goaltender for the duration of his time there. Not the lack of a stable group of defenseman for the duration of his time there. Not the lack of depth at forward while he was there. Not the lack of good coaching while he was there. Not the horrendous general manager who ran the team the entire time. Not the incredibly cheap ownership group that owned the team the entire time. No, it was the fault of the guy who, over the last six seasons, scored more goals than all but one player.
At one point weren't Kovalchuk, Heatley, and Savard all on the same team? Or was it Hossa instead of Heatley, I don't remember. Either way, any team with those 3 players should have been a near lock for the playoffs.

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09-24-2011, 07:00 AM
  #815
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Didn't he clearly indicate that he understood all of this already? He said it's way he'd like to see but that realistically he knew better... I think u really misread wat he wrote there. Did u just read the lineup and then stop or something? Also it's worth noting that just bc they worked great as rookies there may come a day wen the pair of mcd and sauer is broken. Perhaps one of them slumps? Or maybe by the time erixon or mci are rdy likely sauer or giratdi get supplanted? Anyway thats all severe hypothetical thinking out loud by me. Point is expect that pairing now but its def no guarantee that they are a pairing gor life already .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
Christian Thomas?? Break-up Sauer & McD???

First off, Thomas is no where near NHL ready. He's 2 - 3 years away. He's not nearly strong enough at this stage of his development. The kid needs to work on strength & conditioning. Even after that, he's still not a lock to break into the NHL.

Torts is clearly not breaking up the McD & Sauer tandem. When a pair works so well together, you leave it alone. Its a coach's dream to have two D-men mesh so well with one another.

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09-24-2011, 07:55 AM
  #816
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post

Vets vs. rookies? You mean like Kovalchuk, Tedenby, Josefsen, Salvador, Brodeur (all game), Greene, etc?
.
Tedenby and Josefson are for all intents and purposes rookies. Josefson has play 28 NHL games and Tedenby 50 something but most of those have been limited action. And while not a rookie Salvador hasn't played a game in over a year and no one really knows his status.

But Im posting about Kovalchuk. He is not a good hockey player.
He has so many fundamental deficiencies in his game that I often question the true value of those 40 some odd goals a year.

There is no question he is supremely skilled but his play in 2 of the 3 zones is spotty at best. His decision making with the puck is questionable and he really doesn't use his teammates well at all...there aren't any tic-tac-toe highlights of Kovalchuk because if the puck isn't on his stick he becomes a dumb player.
For a man of his size and strength he doesn't use his body effectively and often plays a perimeter game. He could literally could score 50 goals regularly if he stepped into the trenches once in a while. He is an incomplete player that you have to accept the inadequacies for the goals....not my cup of tea personally.


Last edited by JimEIV: 09-24-2011 at 08:03 AM.
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09-24-2011, 08:12 AM
  #817
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I can't stand Brodeur. Maybe it's because I'm so used to Henrik being so humble, but the way Brodeur threw his teammates under the bus during the Olympics after the loss to the USA, talking about how he was great and his teammates couldn't capitalize, and now complaining and making excuses about how the Rangers "played three lines of NHL-ready forwards in a preseason game."

You're a grown man and a professional, take a meaningless loss like a man and knock it off with the excuses.
This is why Fatso is so classless, didn't hear any quotes from him about the Devils lineup the other night, he never complained when he racked up a ton of wins for all the years when the NYR's sucked.

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09-24-2011, 08:27 AM
  #818
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Oh jesus.

I'm astonished this gem of a post hasn't bee quoted yet.

Vets vs. rookies? You mean like Kovalchuk, Tedenby, Josefsen, Salvador, Brodeur (all game), Greene, etc?

Wednesday night the Devils NHL team beat the Rangers junior club by 1 goal in overtime. Tonight, the Rangers squad, missing 2 of their top 6 forwards, their top D pairing, and their starting goalie, beat the Devils NHL squad, minus 2 of their top 6 forwards and Henrik Tallinder.

The moment the Rangers put in Johnson and the Devils left Marty in this game became a joke.
The game also became a joke when the Devils were triple-shifting Kovalchuk...

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09-24-2011, 08:37 AM
  #819
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The game also became a joke when the Devils were triple-shifting Kovalchuk...
This never happened but okay...

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09-24-2011, 08:48 AM
  #820
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We are such morons for not signing Kovalchuk.
I thank god every day we didn't - guy isn't a winner.

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09-24-2011, 08:49 AM
  #821
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
First of all, the Devils aren't built around Brodeur. Second of all, who cares if he plays a 2 way game or not? If you have a good team, you have a good goaltender and good team defense. You sacrifice a little defense to have a HUGE offense
The Devils success has ALWAYS been built around their best player and what he needs to dominate his position. Brodeur will go down as the best goaltender ever because of his skill and the teams that were built around him that played DEFENSE to a man.

Kovy has no desire to play defense and when the games matter the most....DEFENSE wins championships. WHen you cater to such a one sided offense player with all those minutes, your franchise will struggle.

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09-24-2011, 08:56 AM
  #822
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At one point weren't Kovalchuk, Heatley, and Savard all on the same team? Or was it Hossa instead of Heatley, I don't remember. Either way, any team with those 3 players should have been a near lock for the playoffs.
Hoss got out of their first chance he got. Hoss is an excellent 2 way player. I had no doubt he would carry the cup one day.... 3 trips to the finals later he did.

Those ATL teams catered to Kovalchuk and his offensive skills. You can't preach defense to the soldiers and kids and let your franchise guy off the hook. It doesn't work. Guys start to care a little less, just a little and the opponent wants it more and you fail in the NHL.

It's a team character....are you there to win or try to score goals?

Hard work in all zones is what builds winners and two of the three zones are very hard to score goals from.

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09-24-2011, 09:41 AM
  #823
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Kovalchuk is a great offensive player, though not one I"d want to build my team around long term. IMO the Devils would be better off running out Parise as their go to top left wing, but that's just me

Gaborik is similar in that I wouldn't want to build my team around him, and that's why the Rangers really needed a first line center. The Devils don't really have that top flight first line center though, which makes Parise all the more important IMO.

But given a choice I'd take Kovalchuk on my team more often than not if I had the other pieces in place. I just don't quite think he's a franchise type guy that you get out of someone like Crosby, or even Ovechkin

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09-24-2011, 10:01 AM
  #824
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Tedenby and Josefson are for all intents and purposes rookies. Josefson has play 28 NHL games and Tedenby 50 something but most of those have been limited action. And while not a rookie Salvador hasn't played a game in over a year and no one really knows his status.

But Im posting about Kovalchuk. He is not a good hockey player.
He has so many fundamental deficiencies in his game that I often question the true value of those 40 some odd goals a year.

There is no question he is supremely skilled but his play in 2 of the 3 zones is spotty at best. His decision making with the puck is questionable and he really doesn't use his teammates well at all...there aren't any tic-tac-toe highlights of Kovalchuk because if the puck isn't on his stick he becomes a dumb player.
For a man of his size and strength he doesn't use his body effectively and often plays a perimeter game. He could literally could score 50 goals regularly if he stepped into the trenches once in a while. He is an incomplete player that you have to accept the inadequacies for the goals....not my cup of tea personally.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I was at the game yesterday, so I could see little things that you miss on TV. Unless he has the puck, he is an utterly useless hockey player. There was a whole shift (about a minute), where the Rangers were cycling in the offensive zone and Kovalchuk just stood at the half boards and didn't move.

Larsson is a stud, though. I was amazed how calm he looks with the puck. He is prone to the occasional rookie mistake, but that is to be expected for an 18 year old.

Marty is getting old. Time to hang em up guy.


Last edited by RangerBlue62: 09-24-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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09-24-2011, 10:17 AM
  #825
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If Deboer wants to play an uptempo, forechecking, attack first style, he should tell Lou to sign a better goalie.

Brodeur will be exposed this year more then ever. Rookie defenseman, lack of an overall defensive structure, similar to the first half of last year. Its not going to be an easy year for him. Could he stand on his head? Sure- for a stretch of games, but it isnt going to be a consistent thing. His Shut Outs are going to go way down and I think this season is the beginning of the end for him.

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