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Old
11-17-2011, 11:35 AM
  #301
wolfgaze
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
http://www.adweek.com/news/televisio...-itself-136590

No reason to think the Second Circuit will decide any differently.
Exactly... Cablevision doesn't have a leg to stand on... Trying to argue they should be allowed to withhold High Definition content because their inferior product/services cannot compete with the larger phone companies??? FCC siding with CV would set a dangerous precedent whereby companies around the nation would seek to acquire the broadcasting rights to exclusive telecasting in major sports markets in order to withhold that content from competitors and secure Customer bases.... That is not a precedent that anyone wants to see set...

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11-17-2011, 11:44 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by rangerfan2 View Post
Let me clarify. I do not think the court is going to reverse the decision. I think they are more likely than not at this point (and I would be thrilled to be wrong) to grant the stay, prolonging things. Simply by delaying, Dolanvision wins.
Why would they be inclined to grant a stay when all previous efforts to have an appeal or stay granted have been denied? Secondly, how does Dolan win by delaying this? The inevitable conclusion is that CV is not allowed to withhold high-definition content for a competitive advantage over other companies.... As you can see from this thread many existing CV customers are already jumping ship from CV because they provide an inferior service and HD sports programming for select teams was the only thing keeping many Customers around.... The writing is on the wall.

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11-17-2011, 04:23 PM
  #303
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And thank god for that. Cablevision's demise is long overdue. It's kinda like Microsoft in a way...both companies are on a long slow inevitible decline, but due to them being the only option for so long, they will hang on for a while despite being totally inferior.

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11-18-2011, 12:46 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why would they be inclined to grant a stay when all previous efforts to have an appeal or stay granted have been denied? Secondly, how does Dolan win by delaying this? The inevitable conclusion is that CV is not allowed to withhold high-definition content for a competitive advantage over other companies.... As you can see from this thread many existing CV customers are already jumping ship from CV because they provide an inferior service and HD sports programming for select teams was the only thing keeping many Customers around.... The writing is on the wall.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, so I'm not sure I should even be responding. But did you read the article I had a link to? If not, see below. I'm not saying the argument is a winner, but it is somewhat compelling. And if you are familiar with the standard the court will use to determine whether or not to grant the stay, I believe this might be enough, because if CV does win the appeal, and the stay is not granted, they will certainly have suffered substantial harm through the loss of significant subscriber revenues.

How does CV win by delaying? It's money dude. How many people here have vowed to leave once FiOS gets MSH HD? While I argue it's a relatively small number and a drop in the CV bucket, they have delayed for over 18 months to keep their so-called competitive advantage. That's a lot of money they have kept coming in every month. If they can prolong it, it's even more subscriber money. Finally, and again, I hate Dolan and CV, but come on, their service is not totally inferior to FiOS. I am one of the few that currently has both services--I've had FiOS for a year, and CV for 10. There is not a huge difference. If you don't need NFL Network or RedZone, they are pretty much identical. Internet is slightly faster, but do you really need 5MB/s? Whatcha grabbing that you need that fast?

One more time--I hope CV loses, and MSG HD ends up on my FiOS boxes next month. Screw u Dolan!

Quote:
Cablevision argues that it needs to differentiate its MVPD service from that of AT&T and Verizon, since the phone companies can offer the same bundle of services, plus wireless phone service that Cablevision doesn't offer. "Cablevision thus viewed it important to provide at least some channels that the telephone companies cannot," it argues, which is why it did not make the HD feeds of its MSG regional sports net available to AT&T's U-Verse and Verizon's FiOS services.

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11-18-2011, 02:05 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by rangerfan2 View Post
I don't necessarily disagree with you, so I'm not sure I should even be responding. But did you read the article I had a link to? If not, see below. I'm not saying the argument is a winner, but it is somewhat compelling. And if you are familiar with the standard the court will use to determine whether or not to grant the stay, I believe this might be enough, because if CV does win the appeal, and the stay is not granted, they will certainly have suffered substantial harm through the loss of significant subscriber revenues.
I think you are taking too myopic of a view of the case at hand. This issue is much larger than CV & Verizon's feud over MSG HD specifically. Think of the precedent that would be set if the FCC sided with CV on this matter? CV is arguing that HD and SD signals are one in the same in terms of content and that they are not to be considered separate entities... What message would that send to competing carriers around the country? Imagine a media world where various companies and carriers are withholding HD content while providing the SD content because of conflicting interests and business feuds? Who gets screwed over by that type of atmosphere? The Consumers... FCC knows this and they will not allow this precedent to be set whereby companies can pick and choose which HD signals they provide to various carriers. All broadcasts will eventually be in High Definition in the not too distant future, it's the new standard... CV is playing games and FCC won't have any of it.

Quote:
How does CV win by delaying? It's money dude. How many people here have vowed to leave once FiOS gets MSH HD? While I argue it's a relatively small number and a drop in the CV bucket, they have delayed for over 18 months to keep their so-called competitive advantage. That's a lot of money they have kept coming in every month. If they can prolong it, it's even more subscriber money.
I wouldn't refer to that as "winning" in my book. More like putting a temporary stop to the bleeding. Winning would be having the FCC side with CV and allowing them to indefinitely withhold the HD signals for MSG.

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Finally, and again, I hate Dolan and CV, but come on, their service is not totally inferior to FiOS. I am one of the few that currently has both services--I've had FiOS for a year, and CV for 10. There is not a huge difference. If you don't need NFL Network or RedZone, they are pretty much identical. Internet is slightly faster, but do you really need 5MB/s? Whatcha grabbing that you need that fast?
To let you know where I'm coming from - I rent an upstairs apartment in a home that my buddy owns (he lives in the downstairs apartment). We had CV for the first 3 years that we lived there. 2 years ago he decided he wanted to switch to FiOS (against my wishes as I knew I would no longer get MSG HD). So I didn't' voluntarily switch my service to FiOS. I can tell you after having CV for 3 years and now FiOS for 2, that FiOS's service is hands down better and more reliable. Here is a list of problems we had with CV -

-regular & persistent audio blips & interference on CBSHD. It made the channel unwatchable. The audio was scrambled and would distort and drop in and out.

-intermittent signal loss / blackouts of random channels. We would lose various channels for 1-2 weeks at a time. They would just stop coming through and we would get black screens. This occurred across various channels and was not tied to any sports programming where there might be intentional blackouts of select events.

-On Demand service would be temporary unavailable

-Outdated cableboxes not up to speed with current technology.

-Crappy SD picture quality

-No remote DVR access


I researched these issues online at avsforum.com in a thread dedicated to discussion about Cablevision service in my specific region, and determined that these issues/experiences were NOT unique to our individual service, so we knew it was a larger CV issue for our area and not tied to hardware/connection issues at our home.

When we switched to FiOS, I immediately noticed the following improvements in service:

-Better quality and more responsive cable boxes. Verizon's standard HD boxes have upscalers integrated in them which provided noticeably better quality SD picture resolutions for non-HD channels. Verizon provided us with a multi-room DVR from the get go and that immediately improved our viewing experience at home.

-More reliable service - never experienced any issues with channel drop outs or channels randomly being unavailable. No audio distortion on any channels either. We've never lost service with Verizon, even through snow storms and bad weather.


-No issues with On Demand service functioning correctly

-Just recently we were able to upgrade our existing Multi-Room DVR to a new and updated 500GB Motorola Multi-room DVR at no charge through FiOS. Just an example of how they are making more current technology available to their customers to enhance their service and viewing experience at home

-Remote DVR access both through Verizon's website and through their Remote DVR App for smart phones which is a huge plus for my needs (our DVR box is located on the 1st floor of our house)

I was never partial to Verizon outside of my experiences with their cable tv service just recently. I had used them as a cell phone carrier for years and dropped them for T-Mobile 4 years ago. That being said, after having both Cablevision and Verizon for tv service over the past 5 years, I can firmly say that Verizon has a better quality service & product, hands down. Cablevision's service is inferior both in terms of reliability and hardware technology, their Customer service is spotty at best as well.

I'm not home during the day but my roommate is and he tells me that a Cablevision Salesman comes by our home once a week with offers of a 'free ipod' if we switch out service from FioS back to CV... If CV wanted our business back, they should provide a product/service that competes on the same level as FiOS, not try and bribe us with promises of free gifts. Between that and CV withholding MSG HD from other cable subscribers in this area, it tells me that they are desperate to find different ways to compete with Verizon & AT&T, because they certainly can't do so based on the reputation or quality of their service. Look at how aggressive their ad campaign has been over the years, trashing Verizon in the process and boasting about their exclusive rights to HD broadcasts of all the NYC Metro sports teams.... If they had a more competitive service, they wouldn't resort to such tactics.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 11-18-2011 at 02:50 PM.
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Old
11-18-2011, 03:25 PM
  #306
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Rangerfan2, to say that Fios/CV are similiar quality is pretty insane. I was a CV customer for 20 years (not me exactly but my family, which I lived with) and I can tell you first hand the HD service itself is MIND BOGGLINGLY better than that pixelated compressed crap that CV gave us. I never noticed this until I bought my first 1080p TV. The feed that Fios gives you is Blu Ray quality, there is a huge difference between the two in that respect and I'm not even talking about all the other things like tuning to a certain HD HBO or NHL Network HD and seeing a "channel not available" sign. CV is still stuck in the past and they want to charge people a premium.

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Old
11-23-2011, 10:00 AM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerfan2 View Post
Finally, and again, I hate Dolan and CV, but come on, their service is not totally inferior to FiOS. I am one of the few that currently has both services--I've had FiOS for a year, and CV for 10. There is not a huge difference. If you don't need NFL Network or RedZone, they are pretty much identical. Internet is slightly faster, but do you really need 5MB/s? Whatcha grabbing that you need that fast?
Either you don't have FiOS, you don't have an HDTV, or you need your eyes checked.

There is no mid day - night internet lag like there is with CV. The HD and SD blow CV out of the water. There is no comparison. It's night and day.

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Old
11-30-2011, 08:21 PM
  #308
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Got an update for you guys since I know this is important to your fans just as much..


http://www.dslreports.com/r0/downloa.../cv%20stay.pdf

Essentially: The 2nd Circuit has granted a stay of the FCC ruling until December 13th at 1:30pm so that they can meet and discuss the issue amongst themselves.. So Verizon cannot run fiber until then, and Verizon has said it will take about 2 weeks before the fiber has been run and the signal can come online.. That's assuming that the court rules in the FCC's/Verizon's favor.. They could rule against, or delay further by calling for oral argument from each party

Why did they grant the stay? You can either take the negative outlook and say it's because they feel Cablevision might have a case here, or you can take the positive outlook and say that it's only to prevent Cablevision from filing another appeal saying that the court didn't give them a fair chance

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11-30-2011, 08:38 PM
  #309
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Where are they "running fiber" to/from?

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11-30-2011, 08:41 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Where are they "running fiber" to/from?
Hopefully from my house to the nearest Verizon center.

I have been seeing Verizon trucks doing landline work for the past few months but nothing yet.

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11-30-2011, 11:26 PM
  #311
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Where are they "running fiber" to/from?
I guess they mean manually connecting their fiber cables to wherever the MSG feed is sent out

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Old
12-01-2011, 03:17 AM
  #312
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I'm not really on topic to some of the previous posts but being out here in Vancouver, I have to rely on streams so maybe the quality of some of those streams will improve? Some days with some streams, I can't even see the puck and with Sam's play by play? :| I think he's credited Boyle with 4 goals this season mistakenly alreaedy and I don't think Boyler even has 4 goals on the season so far. That Sam Rosen. Don't get me wrong, games without Sam is just not the same.

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12-01-2011, 01:20 PM
  #313
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This is awful news. I'm so tired of all the BS. September 23rd was the first day we heard that Cablevision lost in court. Looking at how long they can drag FIOS through the mud is vomit inducing.

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12-01-2011, 02:06 PM
  #314
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This is awful news. I'm so tired of all the BS. September 23rd was the first day we heard that Cablevision lost in court. Looking at how long they can drag FIOS through the mud is vomit inducing.
It's drawing to a close....

"PATIENCE!.... PATIENCE!!!"

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12-01-2011, 02:49 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
It's drawing to a close....

"PATIENCE!.... PATIENCE!!!"
Can't you see that this just isn't going to happen. I sure I'm wrong, but........

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12-01-2011, 02:55 PM
  #316
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Can't you see that this just isn't going to happen. I sure I'm wrong, but........
CV is close to exhausting all of their last remaining options... No one has ever sided with them on this matter and I have no reason to believe that's going to change....

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12-01-2011, 02:57 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Reijo R View Post
Can't you see that this just isn't going to happen. I sure I'm wrong, but........
Uh, what? This is basically a stay of execution for some silly reason like the judge forgot to sign a paper (not what happened, but just to show you how last ditch this is).

Baring a miracle, MSGHD will be on FiOS. The legal system does not like seeing competition stifled.

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12-01-2011, 04:39 PM
  #318
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Uh, what? This is basically a stay of execution for some silly reason like the judge forgot to sign a paper (not what happened, but just to show you how last ditch this is).

Baring a miracle, MSGHD will be on FiOS. The legal system does not like seeing competition stifled.
Apparently you haven't started your patent law classes yet...

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12-01-2011, 06:05 PM
  #319
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Apparently you haven't started your patent law classes yet...
Eh, that's a different thing entirely, though. And even then, if the patent is something so situated in some technology (say 3G), then I've yet to see any real banishment of product in the US. Maybe some monetary damages. Nothing like Europe where they just outright ban products.

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12-02-2011, 01:19 PM
  #320
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Talked to a Fios tech on the street today, December 12th is the date MSGHD will be on Fios.

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12-02-2011, 01:20 PM
  #321
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Talked to a Fios tech on the street today, December 12th is the date MSGHD will be on Fios.
Can you relay what he said word for word? Did he sound like he knew what he was talking about or just telling you what you wanted to hear?

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12-02-2011, 01:22 PM
  #322
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Can you relay what he said word for word? Did he sound like he knew what he was talking about or just telling you what you wanted to hear?
He told me he's been waiting... "6 ****ing years" does that help?

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12-02-2011, 01:39 PM
  #323
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He told me he's been waiting... "6 ****ing years" does that help?
that sounds good enough for me

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12-02-2011, 01:52 PM
  #324
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He told me he's been waiting... "6 ****ing years" does that help?


If this guy has waited 6 years, he damn well knows when it's going to be on Fios.

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12-02-2011, 02:26 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post


If this guy has waited 6 years, he damn well knows when it's going to be on Fios.
I'm willing to bet against this. According to that last document/affidavit, there is a meeting on Dec 13th to determine the next step. Can't see how Verizon is broadcasting MSG HD before that date.

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