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Ales Kotalik, Shaone Morrisonn, Derek Whitmore, David Leggio (Cleared)

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Old
09-24-2011, 02:54 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Let's use YOUR WORDS, which is what my comments are based off of.


This statement is false UNLESS they agree to a loan arrangement. It's not unheard of for a player to be loaned from an NHL team to an overseas league, but it's also extremely uncommon.

It's an important distinction as to if he's playing in Europe because he failed to report, or if he's playing there because of an agreed upon loan. You did not note that.
False...Prucha, Vrbata, Nylander, Huet, Thikonov are all examples of players who got loaned to Europe while they were still under contract with an NHL team.

The buyout you are probably thinking of is the 125$ buyout. I'm not 100% sure but it I believe that there has to be a mutual agreement between the team and the player. The Washington Capitals used this kind of buyout this summer to released two young players (Kugryshev and Gustafsson) who already signed contracts with European teams and weren't going to report to Hershey/South Carolina anyway.

I'm pretty certain that Kotalik is going to get loaned and not "release"

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09-24-2011, 03:11 PM
  #52
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Basically no chance of Kotalik going to Rochester. His NHL career is over. He knows it now, so there's little point in riding buses in the AHL.

The question becomes, for Amerks fans, do the Sabres sign or acquire a veteran forward to replace him. I would hope so.

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09-24-2011, 03:36 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
MacIntyre is odd though unless they want another goalie still in camp.
Could he be the third goalie they take to Europe? Aren't teams that start there allowed to take extra players?

Is he #3 on our depth chart?

So many questions, I know.

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09-24-2011, 03:48 PM
  #54
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wait a minute before camp ak said he could skate with anyone on the roster


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Old
09-24-2011, 03:54 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Booba View Post
False...Prucha, Vrbata, Nylander, Huet, Thikonov are all examples of players who got loaned to Europe while they were still under contract with an NHL team.

The buyout you are probably thinking of is the 125$ buyout. I'm not 100% sure but it I believe that there has to be a mutual agreement between the team and the player. The Washington Capitals used this kind of buyout this summer to released two young players (Kugryshev and Gustafsson) who already signed contracts with European teams and weren't going to report to Hershey/South Carolina anyway.

I'm pretty certain that Kotalik is going to get loaned and not "release"
Nice post, I didn't feel like finding any examples as I had just woken up.

The $125 buyout you're referring to is $125 or unconditional waivers.
The nickname $125 waivers comes from the fact that it costs a team $125 to waive or claim the player (depending on a player's experience, waivers cost different amounts of money).
It can be a mutual release, but players can also be released for violating their contract (which I believe was the case with Gustafsson, as I don't think he reported to training camp, and that was most likely the case with Kugryshev too).

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09-24-2011, 03:56 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Also interesting who didn't get waived:

Ellis/Stuart/Szchechura/Ryan are probably competing for the #13 spot (although Szchechura didn't get any preseason games yet--and not even tonight. Is he hurt or something?)

Persson by my count is not waiver exempt, so maybe they want to get a closer look at him too.

MacIntyre is odd though unless they want another goalie still in camp.
I expect all of them to be in their next pre-season game against Columbus so they can wait on assigning them.

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09-24-2011, 04:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Basically no chance of Kotalik going to Rochester. His NHL career is over. He knows it now, so there's little point in riding buses in the AHL.

The question becomes, for Amerks fans, do the Sabres sign or acquire a veteran forward to replace him. I would hope so.
I wouldn't count Kotalik out of Rochester yet. It's not the same as his situation with Calgary/Abbotsford. He liked Rochester and enjoyed playing there.

Quote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...BlK_story.html
“It’s been tough. It still is. It’s always in the back of your mind,” Kotalik said. “It gives you a different look, and different life perspective. I want to have fun and enjoy things. I’m just happy being around the people I like and I know. And everything else will take care of itself.”
He knows the people he'll be with in Rochester.

Quote:
http://blogs.democratandchronicle.co...py-to-be-back/
“This is kind of like coming home,” he said. “I’m really excited to be back here. Lindy (Ruff, the head coach) and Darcy (Regier, the general manager), they gave me a chance to become an NHL player (starting in 2001-02) and I will never forget that.

“I assume they know what kind of player they built. I’m still the same player. I have the hope I will be on this team and will do good things for this team.”

When asked if Europe would be an option (if the Sabres tell him he’s being sent to Rochester), Kotalik said, “My only thought is to be here and play well and do my thing. These are the only things I can control.”
This sounds like a guy who might want to work for the organization when his career is over. More importantly he doesn't say he'd rather go back to Europe as the case was in Calgary.

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09-24-2011, 05:03 PM
  #58
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But...but...I thought Kotalik was gonna stay on and be our shootout specialist!

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09-24-2011, 05:50 PM
  #59
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Usual dew oh

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Old
09-24-2011, 06:08 PM
  #60
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shocking

didn't expect that

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Old
09-24-2011, 07:50 PM
  #61
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I feel for AlKo. He seemed determined to make the team but was never really given a fair shake.

He wouldn't make the team even if he was given a look, but he seemed excited to just receive a chance - something he clearly has not gotten.

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09-24-2011, 08:08 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Looooooodman View Post
I feel for AlKo. He seemed determined to make the team but was never really given a fair shake.

He wouldn't make the team even if he was given a look, but he seemed excited to just receive a chance - something he clearly has not gotten.
Regier just explained that if one of them got hurt in preseason, they'd have had to put 'em on IR and then trade another player or players to get under. Al's comments seem to indicate he's happy to be back with some people who appreciate him. It sounds like he's going to Rochester for sure and he could be a big cog for them this year, helping them on the ice and off.

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09-24-2011, 08:47 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Regier just explained that if one of them got hurt in preseason, they'd have had to put 'em on IR and then trade another player or players to get under. Al's comments seem to indicate he's happy to be back with some people who appreciate him. It sounds like he's going to Rochester for sure and he could be a big cog for them this year, helping them on the ice and off.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why they did it. It was extremely logical to do. I just feel for the guy.

Hopefully AlKo replaces Mancari's offense, and more.

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Old
09-24-2011, 09:16 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Duddy View Post
shocking

didn't expect that
How are the Sabres ever going to get under the cap??

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Old
09-24-2011, 10:46 PM
  #65
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Kotalik has $3-million reasons to report. Nobody is touching Morrisonn at $2-mlllion. You could have had him for a bag of pucks last week. Who wants him, seriously. Reentry is another story. That's half price. He could get takers if we end up bringing him up. Personally, I'm happy to be done with him. I can see why Washington threw in the towel.

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09-25-2011, 12:30 AM
  #66
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So much for either guy getting a chance to make the team though. Nice rhetoric. We were onto Regier's game about three months ago.
There was no rhetoric regarding Morrisonn - and most of what Regier & Ruff said about Kotalik came in the aftermath of the Regehr trade, where they obviously couldn't admit they were forced to take Kotalik. I don't know why Ruff teased the media during camp that Kotalik "could still help us" - that was nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
My only concern with Kotalik blowing town would be the lack of proven offensive guys for the Amerks. If he goes, he's a solid/unspectacular replacement for Mancari's scoring.
Only if his head is into the game and motivated to play in the minors. Who knows - maybe the emotional hit of the Russian plane crash humbled him where he'd accept Rochester as a new opportunity and be grateful. Or.......

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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Unless he gets an offer from a KHL team for more than $3m, he'll show to Rochester.
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Originally Posted by earthwindmyers View Post
He tried to go back to Europe last year, but it was past the date so he wasn't allowed. From his interviews with the media in camp, it sounded like it was either Buffalo or Europe.
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Originally Posted by earthwindmyers View Post
Translation: I will go to Europe if I don't make the team out of camp next season

Believe it or not, some players value being close to home and near family and friends over money.
....he takes to heart the "life is short" message he seemed to be pointing out when discussing the plane crash and loss of some friends, and decides he should go where his family and roots are.

Personally, my bet is that he tries Rochester for 1-2 months in hopes that the Sabres run into injuries and call him up, or another team expresses interest - if nothing on either front happens by Christmas, I think he packs it in and heads home for good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Nobody is touching Morrisonn at $2-mlllion. You could have had him for a bag of pucks last week. Who wants him, seriously.
You're in for a surprise IMO - I bet Morrisonn is with another NHL team by Halloween. If he isn't claimed now, teams are bound to have some injuries on defense in the first month or young prospects they thought would work out but don't, and picking up Morrisonn will be easy insurance.

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09-25-2011, 12:31 AM
  #67
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Ales Kotalik and Shaone Morrisonn never really had a chance. Their high-dollar salaries combined with the Buffalo Sabres’ over-the-limit payroll made them easy targets for the chopping block. The cleaver cut swiftly Saturday.

The Sabres placed Kotalik and Morrisonn on waivers, moves that weren’t shocking given Buffalo’s financial situation. The Sabres entered training camp $3.6 million over the NHL’s salary cap of $64.3 million. Kotalik makes $3 million and Morrisonn has a cap hit of $2.075. Their departures will bring the Sabres back into compliance and put them $1.5 million under the cap.

The other 29 teams have until noon Monday to claim the players. If no one does, the Sabres can assign them to Rochester or Europe.

"I told the players that I would talk to them on Monday and we’d see where we were after the noon deadline," General Manager Darcy Regier said tonight before the Sabres hosted Toronto. "Both were very professional and understanding in that they realized what this means. The only thing that I can try to do to help them is say to them, 'We’ll work and try to help you in any way to try to get back in the National Hockey League, whether it’s with us, which would obviously involve biding their time, or another team.'"

The Sabres said repeatedly that Kotalik would be given a chance to make the roster. The winger didn’t play in the team’s first four exhibitions, however, and he skated with minor-leaguers during practices. Morrisonn didn’t play, either.

"Because of the rules, it was our intention to try and get them into games," Regier said. "The difficulty with being over the cap is that had either of these players played a game and been injured – and when I’m talking about injured, not available for the opening day roster – in order for us to get under the cap we would’ve had to either waive or trade other players on our roster. It made it very difficult.

"We spent a lot of time talking about, 'Should we get them in a game? Should we have a look?' because obviously they’re both NHL players. In Al’s case, he’s played for us, he’s played well for us, but when we went through it this was the decision we decided to go with."
http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/...at-sabres.html

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09-25-2011, 01:16 AM
  #68
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The team had been over the NHL salary cap most of the offseason and the move puts them about $1.5 million under the cap. Neither Kotalik nor Morrisonn played a game this preseason, but Regier said there was a good reason for that.

" The difficulty with... being over the cap is that had either of these players played a game and been injured, and when I'm talking about injured, not available for the opening day roster, in order for us to get under the cap, we would've had to either waive or trade other players on our roster," said Regier.

Regier did try to get something in return for the players before resorting to waiving them, but he said that pulling of trades for veterans is difficult, particularly in the preseason.

"The difficulty is in training camp, teams are trying their younger players. They're optimistic, we're all optimistic, obviously, at this time of year. And so it's difficult to make these moves," he said.
http://wgr550.com/Regier-Talks-About...isonn/11011790

Quote:
Darcy Regier addressed the media prior to the game, and confirmed the Sabres have placed Ales Kotalik and Shaone Morrisonn on waivers. Both players will find out after 12 Noon on Monday if they have cleared, or are claimed by another team. Regier said that simply sending either player to Rochester isn’t a foregone conclusion at this point.

“We’re going to take a wait and see,” Regier I told the players I’d talk to them on Monday, and see where we were after the Noon deadline.”

Regier admitted that he’s had some preliminary discussions with other teams regarding Kotalik and Morrisonn, and intimated the waiver moves could possibly spark some further conversations.

There has been some interest. The difficulty is in training camp, teams are trying their younger players. It’s difficult to make these moves. I’m hopeful that by making these two players available, that in the event they clear, it might even prompt some conversation with teams in regards to ‘would you consider looking at something else?’ in the way of a trade.”
http://sabres.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|BUF|home


Last edited by Sabretip: 09-25-2011 at 01:24 AM.
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Old
09-25-2011, 01:16 AM
  #69
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Simply ... the right moves with Morrisonn and Kotalik

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Old
09-25-2011, 09:13 AM
  #70
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You're in for a surprise IMO - I bet Morrisonn is with another NHL team by Halloween. If he isn't claimed now, teams are bound to have some injuries on defense in the first month or young prospects they thought would work out but don't, and picking up Morrisonn will be easy insurance.

...not what I said. He'll be in minors by then. To be picked by "by Halloween" as you say, Sabres would have to try and bring him back up. In that case, they get half the cap hit. Please correct me if I.m wrong. I don't think they'll risk it. I think he's in minors long-term but i feel 99% sure he doesn't get touched at $2 million. Numbers game. Ask Wade Redden.

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09-25-2011, 09:32 AM
  #71
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...not what I said. He'll be in minors by then. To be picked by "by Halloween" as you say, Sabres would have to try and bring him back up. In that case, they get half the cap hit. Please correct me if I.m wrong. I don't think they'll risk it. I think he's in minors long-term but i feel 99% sure he doesn't get touched at $2 million. Numbers game. Ask Wade Redden.



Disregarding any likelihood of it happening, after he clears wavers and goes to Rochester he could be traded to another team down the road who then calls him up right?

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Old
09-25-2011, 09:46 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by two Tylers now View Post
Disregarding any likelihood of it happening, after he clears wavers and goes to Rochester he could be traded to another team down the road who then calls him up right?
Good question but even if they could it would mean another team would have to pay the $2 million and then run the risk if they did bring him ouo of paying half contract. I think Morrisonn is in Rochester till trade deadline unless he's claimed. By then cap hit goes down.
Sabres never had any intention of giving these guys a shot. That's the truth. Sure if the sea parted and they got a crazy offer for Boyes or something cap room might have opened.

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09-25-2011, 10:19 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
...not what I said. He'll be in minors by then. To be picked by "by Halloween" as you say, Sabres would have to try and bring him back up. In that case, they get half the cap hit. Please correct me if I.m wrong. I don't think they'll risk it. I think he's in minors long-term but i feel 99% sure he doesn't get touched at $2 million. Numbers game. Ask Wade Redden.
I wasn't suggesting that he'd be claimed on re-entry waivers because, as you say, the Sabres wouldn't want to be on the hook for half his salary; I was pointing out that odds are good that at least one of the teams, who may have no need/interest in an extra veteran defenseman NOW, will suffer some injuries in the first month and change their needs. Morrisonn could then be traded.

And $2M is not crazy for a veteran # 5 / 6 defenseman; most top 4 defenders are being paid $3M+. Comparing his situation to Redden's is silly because Redden's salary is $4M higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by two Tylers now View Post
Disregarding any likelihood of it happening, after he clears wavers and goes to Rochester he could be traded to another team down the road who then calls him up right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
I think Morrisonn is in Rochester till trade deadline unless he's claimed. By then cap hit goes down.
That could happen as well - as could the possibility that the Sabres get hit with 2 long-term injuries to their defense, and suddenly need Morrisonn to fill in on a short-term basis.

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09-25-2011, 10:27 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post



You're in for a surprise IMO - I bet Morrisonn is with another NHL team by Halloween. If he isn't claimed now, teams are bound to have some injuries on defense in the first month or young prospects they thought would work out but don't, and picking up Morrisonn will be easy insurance.
If they wanted to trade Morrisonn wouldn't he have to get recalled and pass through re-entry waivers? And then if he is claimed wouldn't the Sabres be on the hook for half of his salary?

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09-25-2011, 10:37 AM
  #75
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If they wanted to trade Morrisonn wouldn't he have to get recalled and pass through re-entry waivers? And then if he is claimed wouldn't the Sabres be on the hook for half of his salary?
It depends. Teams trade minor leaguers all the time without recalling them beforehand - another team could trade for Morrisonn and then recall him from their farm team.

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