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Matt Duchene vs. John Tavares Now/Future

View Poll Results: Duchene vs. Tavares
Duchene Now and in the Future 66 25.68%
Duchene Now and Tavares in the Future 36 14.01%
Tavares Now and in the Future 148 57.59%
Tavares Now and Duchene in the Future 7 2.72%
Voters: 257. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-26-2011, 10:45 PM
  #101
Rhaego
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Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
This has to be one of THE dumbest posts I've ever read.

You say that Duchenes 1 more point DOESNT matter but Tavares' 2 more goals means so much.

You also cant do simple math since you would have realized Duchene actually has a better shooting percentage than Tavares.

Also defence does play an important role in a forwards game. Guys like Toews, Zetterberg, Datsyuk are some of the best centers in the league because of their 2 way play.

Duchene has more points, more takeaways, more hits, more blocked shots, better plus minus.

Tavares has........2 more goals.


Thats not to say JT wont be better in the future, but right now he hasnt done anything to prove that he will for sure. Duchene has been the better player during their first 2 years. In the future? Who knows...
This

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Old
09-26-2011, 11:15 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Anton the Great View Post
I haven't seen the takeaway stats for either player.

Giving the puck away is a BAD thing.

Shooting at a less efficient rate is a BAD thing.

Duchene has more points.

I clearly put goals in the Tavares column.
1. tavares was top 5 in the league for takeaways, i think duchene was around 17th

2. duchene has more give aways then tavares

3. chances created is more important then high shooting percentage with a significant less amount of chances created imo

4. duchene had the same amount of points in 1 more game played

and i consider my self a duchene fan and i think all teams would love to have him, if you are going to argue that duchene is better then tavares don't base it on offensive parts of the game, base it on the transition and defensive game

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Old
09-26-2011, 11:29 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Duchene has more points, more takeaways, more hits, more blocked shots, better plus minus.

Tavares has........2 more goals.
..
actually points is a tie, tavares has more take aways and goals, and less give aways, duchene is the better defensive player though because of his foot speed

if i had to actually compare each part of their games it would go something like this

speed - duchene
strength - tavares
agility - tavares
snap shot - tavares
wrist shot - duchene
slap shot - tavares
skill - tavares
offensive creativity - tavares
offensive awareness - tavares
transition - duchene
defence - duchene
puck protection - tavares
determination - tavares
offensive anticipation - tavares
defensive anticipation - duchene
penalty kill - duchene
power play - tavares

just how i look at it

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09-26-2011, 11:32 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
Well FYI Tavares is winning this poll by a pretty wide margin...

How do ya explain that one?
Early maturation and draft status. To me this will end up being the Sakic v. Yzerman debate of this era... I'll bet the same debate exists after their retirement.

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Old
09-26-2011, 11:37 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman View Post
Early maturation and draft status. To me this will end up being the Sakic v. Yzerman debate of this era... I'll bet the same debate exists after their retirement.
duchene's and tavare's games are too different imo to be that

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09-26-2011, 11:40 PM
  #106
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I don't know how a couple people suggesting that Tavares isn't miles away better than Duchene and then demonstrating that they've performed fairly similarly thus far might imply the gulf between them is not as great as some might imply (the ol' "Tavares >>>>> Duchene") can be extrapolated to people believing "Duchene>>>>> Tavares," when all that's really meant is "Tavares>/=Duchene, until proven otherwise."

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09-26-2011, 11:40 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
actually points is a tie, tavares has more take aways and goals, and less give aways, duchene is the better defensive player though because of his foot speed

if i had to actually compare each part of their games it would go something like this

speed - duchene
strength - tavares
agility - tavares
snap shot - tavares
wrist shot - duchene
slap shot - tavares
skill - tavares
offensive creativity - tavares
offensive awareness - tavares
transition - duchene
defence - duchene
puck protection - tavares
[B]determination - tavares[\B]
offensive anticipation - tavares
defensive anticipation - duchene
penalty kill - duchene
power play - tavares

just how i look at it
Disagree with strength and agility. Find it amusing that with this breakdown, skill finds its own category. Missing stickhandling, I'll give that to Duchene. Missing passing, I'll give that to Tavares. But again, I think that we'll find that there is not much of a difference in their career numbers. As Tavares finally blossoms adjusting physically to the NHL game, Duchene will mentally mature and use his outstanding physical ability to match Tavares' improvement.

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09-26-2011, 11:46 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
duchene's and tavare's games are too different imo to be that
Sakic and Yzerman played different games as well. Yzerman started off strongly offensive but learned to be a two way player. Yzerman was arguably more dynamic of the two, while Sakic was less flashy and perhaps more consistent. Look no further than this section to find people arguing over who was more motivated or determined. In reality, if you could take just one of them for your team it would be a remarkably hard decision, but one with no wrong answer.

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09-26-2011, 11:49 PM
  #109
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Anything to do with skating and agility, Duchene destroys Tavares hands down. As an Avs fan I do prefer Duchene, but I predict that Tavares will be a 40-50 goal scorer, easily.

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Old
09-26-2011, 11:50 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
Get a grip.
The ironing is delicious.

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Old
09-26-2011, 11:55 PM
  #111
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Sakic v. Yzerman

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09-26-2011, 11:55 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman View Post
Disagree with strength and agility. Find it amusing that with this breakdown, skill finds its own category. Missing stickhandling, I'll give that to Duchene. Missing passing, I'll give that to Tavares. But again, I think that we'll find that there is not much of a difference in their career numbers. As Tavares finally blossoms adjusting physically to the NHL game, Duchene will mentally mature and use his outstanding physical ability to match Tavares' improvement.
stickhandling i would say is pretty much even, the stuff that tavares can do at his speed duchene never dreams of being able to do, duchene having such great speed makes his hands look that much better against defenders though, but if they both found themselves 1 on 1 against a dman tavares would undress him with his shiftiness and hands while duchene would either use them as a screen or fly past them

and btw tavares scores almost all of his goals during battles in front of the net, thats why i gave him strength and agility, agility mainly for the goals against calgary and colorado last season

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09-26-2011, 11:58 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Anything to do with skating and agility, Duchene destroys Tavares hands down. As an Avs fan I do prefer Duchene, but I predict that Tavares will be a 40-50 goal scorer, easily.
Tavares is alot stronger on his legs and is more agile then duchene, tavares is built like a superior power forward from the waist down and thats how he scores so many goals down low

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09-27-2011, 12:02 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
Tavares is alot stronger on his legs and is more agile then duchene, tavares is built like a superior power forward from the waist down and thats how he scores so many goals down low
Nope, again anything skating Duchene destroys. Because Tavares has a lower centre of gravity and bigger frame doesn't mean he's more agile than Duchene.

Also FTR PatientlyWaiting is a ******.


Last edited by S E P H: 09-27-2011 at 12:19 AM.
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Old
09-27-2011, 12:12 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Nope, again anything skating Duchene destroys. Because Tavares has a lower centre of gravity and bigger frame doesn't mean he's more agile than Duchene.

Also FTO PatientlyWaiting is a ******.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydxhtjQs0_8
that one goal shows 3 examples of how he is as agile as the best in the league

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09-27-2011, 12:17 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
actually points is a tie, tavares has more take aways and goals, and less give aways, duchene is the better defensive player though because of his foot speed

Actually career wise Duchene has 1 more point than JT, JT has one more takeaway, JT has more giveaways, Duchene way more blocked shots and hits, JT 2 more goals, Duchene a better plus minus.

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09-27-2011, 12:18 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydxhtjQs0_8
that one goal shows 3 examples of how he is as agile as the best in the league
Want me to start listing Duchene videos? Might take up a whole page.

One bad thing is this was against Shattenkirk who was playing like his 5th game and isn't know for his size or defensive play.

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09-27-2011, 12:23 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
Tavares is alot stronger on his legs and is more agile then duchene, tavares is built like a superior power forward from the waist down and thats how he scores so many goals down low


Tavares more agile than Duchene. Now I've heard everything...

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09-27-2011, 12:27 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Nope, again anything skating Duchene destroys. Because Tavares has a lower centre of gravity and bigger frame doesn't mean he's more agile than Duchene.

Also FTR PatientlyWaiting is a ******.
That would be putting it nicely...

This board would be unbearable without the ignore function.

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09-27-2011, 12:30 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
Tavares is alot stronger on his legs and is more agile then duchene, tavares is built like a superior power forward from the waist down and thats how he scores so many goals down low
Not sure I agree with this. IMO, Tavares was still getting pushed off the puck a lot last season. He might have got stronger over this summer, but last season he wasn't what I'd called "power forward strong" lower body strength.

Tavares scored all his around the net goals because the guy has ridiculously quick and strong wrists. He can roof pucks easily, especially on the back hand, and he's got lightning quick reflexes to get his stick on loose pucks before the opposition. But I really don't think lower body strength has a lot to do with his success.

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09-27-2011, 12:33 AM
  #121
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That would be putting it nicely...

This board would be unbearable without the ignore function.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not?

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09-27-2011, 12:35 AM
  #122
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I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not?
Nah no sarcasm.

Was just agreeing with you.

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09-27-2011, 12:39 AM
  #123
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Nah no sarcasm.

Was just agreeing with you.
Oh ok. You're a really good poster, so I didn't know what I was thinking.

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09-27-2011, 02:41 AM
  #124
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Feel like the people that say AINEC in Tavares favor haven't spent a lot of time watching Duchenne. I need to watch Tavares more to appreciate him and will (Brooklyn) but Duchenne seems stronger with the puck and seems to separate himself from defenders easier than Tavares. Tavares seems better in traffic and in tight areas, makes faster decisions.

But none of that matters, only stats, and they are pretty much a wash at this point. You can't use your eyes to judge an offensive player, just his stat line. One guy is better 5v5 the other on the pp. What's more important? Who the hell knows. But saying one guy is so much better than the other, while the stats are the same, is pure folly.

This thread has a lot of Islander chest thumping with little in the way of am actual coherent argument.

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09-27-2011, 04:56 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Nope, again anything skating Duchene destroys. Because Tavares has a lower centre of gravity and bigger frame doesn't mean he's more agile than Duchene.

Also FTO PatientlyWaiting is a ******.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydxhtjQs0_8
that one goal shows 3 examples of how he is as agile as the best in the league

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