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PSG4: CLB @ WAS, 9/26/11, 7pm

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09-27-2011, 08:14 AM
  #101
txpd
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i try to be realistic. i not only saw what happened to ovechkin last season, but i watched a lot of stamkos as well. after halfway last season, stamkos didnt touch the puck a lot on the pp. teams made a priority of taking him away.

my issue with the ovechkin on the point question is this. when he is on the point teams half to choose whether to chase him out high and open up space behind themselves closer to the net or whether to let him shoot from longer range. when you move him closer to the net the choice is easier. teams would much rather wideman shoot the puck than ovechkin and their choice is easy.

also, when ovechkin is on the point, the player in the position that we would move ovechkin to if removed from the point, is alex semin. in my view having ovechkin and semin on the left side is better than wideman and ovechkin. semin being a more dangerous shooting option than wideman.

i like wideman. i'd like green in that spot too, but i would prefer semin to either wideman or green as a shooting option. its only my opinion.

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09-27-2011, 08:56 AM
  #102
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PPs need to be dynamic and constantly evolving. When teams adjust to Ovy on the PP on the sidewall, we can move him again. And move him again. And move him again. That's what it's about.

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09-27-2011, 09:25 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
purrutu!

such a great look from hamrli...uhm... that new guy whose name i can't yet spell.
There you go!

The boy strikes again!

Perreault will NOT go back to AHL....waste of time for him and will get traded if the Caps do not find room for him.
But my guess is that he's been better than some of your trade-ins so far.

Will be hard to toss aside.

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09-27-2011, 09:41 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i try to be realistic. i not only saw what happened to ovechkin last season, but i watched a lot of stamkos as well. after halfway last season, stamkos didnt touch the puck a lot on the pp. teams made a priority of taking him away.
my issue with the ovechkin on the point question is this. when he is on the point teams half to choose whether to chase him out high and open up space behind themselves closer to the net or whether to let him shoot from longer range. when you move him closer to the net the choice is easier. teams would much rather wideman shoot the puck than ovechkin and their choice is easy.

also, when ovechkin is on the point, the player in the position that we would move ovechkin to if removed from the point, is alex semin. in my view having ovechkin and semin on the left side is better than wideman and ovechkin. semin being a more dangerous shooting option than wideman.

i like wideman. i'd like green in that spot too, but i would prefer semin to either wideman or green as a shooting option. its only my opinion.
the bold section is kind of my point....as well as the point made by others. You cant just send them out to do the same thing everytime and not expect teams to counter it.

The solution isnt one or the other.....its mixing it up and making changes to counter how you are being defended. IMO there is little to excuse what happened last season. Ovechkin spent almost the entire year playing the point, and the PP was below average. We all heard Bylsma...."8, we know where he is". If they know where you will always be, they will take you out of the play. It sounds like you want 8 to be a decoy up on the point so the other guys can tick-tac-toe some goals, and thats not happening.

There is nothing wrong with shifting him around to the half boards or even deep. I prefer a simple PP...move the puck, deliberately, and shoot hard and on net. Use numbers to create turnovers in the corners or to out-man around the net. Ovechkin is great at quickly converting rebounds and making plays in this manor. This is what works in the payoffs...not the fancy passes always looking for the backdoor tap-ins.

Play it simple and use your skill to convert those chances you are sure to get.

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09-27-2011, 09:43 AM
  #105
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That's pretty much a more eloquent version of what I was trying to say.

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09-27-2011, 09:47 AM
  #106
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I'll add that I don't think there is anyone in the org, including Ovechkin, who cares how many touches or ppg he gets. He can score zero all year, but if the pp can run at 20+%, it's still successful. If he has to play decoy rather than triggerman from time to time so be it.

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09-27-2011, 11:46 AM
  #107
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i guess we just look at this from different perspectives. mothra says be simple and shoot hard. ovechkin has the caps best long range shot. bfc says if he is a decoy now and then, thats fine. using ovechkin down low makes it more a steady diet than a now and then unless you are fine with him playing down low just now and then.

just like putting him in front of the net. the caps have other players that can do that job. they have fewer players that can do what he does.

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09-27-2011, 11:50 AM
  #108
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Neither Ovechkin nor Green have the best point shots from their respective sides. That is part of what makes this so maddening.

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09-27-2011, 12:17 PM
  #109
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did i say green had the best shot? so far as ovechkin is concerned...who has a harder/better point shot?

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09-27-2011, 12:24 PM
  #110
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I think Semin's is more accurate and harder. Last year, Arnott's was markedly better.

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09-27-2011, 12:26 PM
  #111
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Semin's got a better slapper, but I'd argue he's worse at getting off the one-timer. Which one is more important is situational, I suppose.

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09-27-2011, 12:42 PM
  #112
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semin has a better shot than ovechkin on the margin. ovechkin has a better one timer than semin on the margin. they tried semin at the point before ovechkin and the difference in decision making and in defensive recovery was significant. this is why semin is not a point option. this is why moving ov down low takes semin off the ice.

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Old
09-27-2011, 12:55 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Semin's got a better slapper, but I'd argue he's worse at getting off the one-timer. Which one is more important is situational, I suppose.
lolwut? Semin is the king of the one-timer in Washington.





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09-27-2011, 12:58 PM
  #114
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Semin's good at sniping, but Ovechkin's quicker at getting the one-timer off. Semin's one-timers make great highlights but they're higher risk as well. Up to you to decide how you want it on the point.

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09-27-2011, 01:04 PM
  #115
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Just put all five players on the left half-boards.

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Old
09-27-2011, 01:13 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
semin has a better shot than ovechkin on the margin. ovechkin has a better one timer than semin on the margin. they tried semin at the point before ovechkin and the difference in decision making and in defensive recovery was significant. this is why semin is not a point option. this is why moving ov down low takes semin off the ice.
The flaws in Semin's game that you cite as a reason to keep him off the point are easily overcome by the player. Have him play simpler and use his world class defense if he does mess up back there.

I can't say I'm particularly concerned that Ovechkin will have worse pp production if you move him off the point. That's pretty much impossible.

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Old
09-27-2011, 01:13 PM
  #117
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Seeing those clips reminds me how excited I am to see Johansson this year. He was directly involved in 3 of those goals. Having him centering Semin should work out pretty well if he has trouble clicking with Ovechkin or if having Backstrom on the second line isn't working.

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09-27-2011, 01:48 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i guess we just look at this from different perspectives. mothra says be simple and shoot hard. ovechkin has the caps best long range shot. bfc says if he is a decoy now and then, thats fine. using ovechkin down low makes it more a steady diet than a now and then unless you are fine with him playing down low just now and then.

just like putting him in front of the net. the caps have other players that can do that job. they have fewer players that can do what he does.
My point is....dont just stick him in one spot and forget about it, regardless of the production.

The PP stunk (to put it nicely) against the Habs....its been below average, at best, ever since. The idea of just doing more of the same is kinda like the exact reason BB gets questioned. Mixing up line pairing here and there isnt making adjustments...making adjustments is changing/tweaking things to counter the tweaks done against you....BB has not shown this to be something he is good at. No, im not calling for him to be fired, not saying he sucks....just stating the points

Now, before people make a big deal about last season. The idea of playing defensive hockey is not to exchange solid D for all your offense, its finding a balance.

again...the idea that 8 has to play the point just doesnt hold water to me. History is filled with great players, on good/bad teams, that produced on the PP....at just about every spot on the ice.

You mention several times how if he plays low he can be taken out of the play....how is that not the case when he plays the point? Teams are still taking him out of the play....because, as disco dan said, "8, we know where he is"

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09-27-2011, 03:14 PM
  #119
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i should refine my comments. when ovechkin plays the left point his area of play on the power play slides from center point all the way left down to the left goal post. what ive noticed is that when he plays down low his range of motion in the zone is far smaller.

i also read bylsma's comment differently. they are watching 8 and not losing him. that was followed, iirc, by a reminder to not forget about someone else.


Last edited by txpd: 09-27-2011 at 03:37 PM.
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Old
09-27-2011, 03:24 PM
  #120
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In the little I've seen, Backstrom looks like he did last season and Ovechkin is going through the motions.

I hope it's just pre-season precaution but with this team it's hard to figure.

I will say that Hamrlik has been much better than I expected and Ward looks great. Haven't seen enough of Brouwer, Halpy or Vokoun...

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Old
09-27-2011, 03:41 PM
  #121
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From my perspective Ovechkin looks like any pre season Ovechkin. He passes more and works on his non-shooting game. He seems to have more jump than last season. Backstrom doesnt look any different, however. Maybe its just hard to tell. Maybe its that Johansson is just so much faster. Backstrom worries me more than Ovechkin.

Agree that Hamrlik seems like a better fit that expected. He moves and shoots better than Tom Poti has been and defensively he seems solid. I was expecting Halpern to be slower than i remember and he actually seems quicker. I dont think we see the real Brouwer for a lttle while yet with his shoulder still in recovery.

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Old
09-27-2011, 05:14 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
This net looks horrible....
I didn't go but my friend who was there in 118 F said looking up at the screen through the net was difficult to see the puck on replays.

Some said it was like looking through a fog and another said it was like looking through a snow storm. It also depends on where you are in relation to the net because the angle can cause more distortion.

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Old
09-27-2011, 05:16 PM
  #123
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i should refine my comments. when ovechkin plays the left point his area of play on the power play slides from center point all the way left down to the left goal post. what ive noticed is that when he plays down low his range of motion in the zone is far smaller.

i also read bylsma's comment differently. they are watching 8 and not losing him. that was followed, iirc, by a reminder to not forget about someone else.
This is made easier when he is always in the same general area....and last season that was the case

yes, if others are picking up the slack (for lack of a better word) and the PP is still converting its not a big deal. Last season, and the last 2 playoffs, they havent. To me you have to have a coach who will identify some things and counter. To date BB has pretty much sent them over the boards with a "go get em' boys" and seems to blame things on the players just not getting it done. While they arent getting it done I dont believe they are always put in the best spot to do it. Other teams really want to win....and when it counts, when you match up for a best of 7 against a good team, you better put your guys in a position to win....and not just expect for them to "grab sacks and want it more"

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Old
09-27-2011, 05:27 PM
  #124
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i have a hard time judging any tactic or strategy basing it on last season the baseline performance of just ovechkin and backstrom as a starting point was so far below their career norms.

if ovechkin and backstrom and back to something nominal at even strenth and the pp still blows, i'll be pointing my finger and the coaching myself. my view remains that once mcphee and boudreau decided that both top players needed an off season reset to return to form, the change in playing style and the resulting success with so many rookies in primary positions was a remarkable job of coaching.

so, i dont see the same bruce cant coach that many here do. this season will be enlightening. at least to me.

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Old
09-27-2011, 05:31 PM
  #125
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Mike Green 0 min on the PP yesterday hmmmm

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