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Suspensions: Next Time Carve with Your Stick!

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Old
09-28-2011, 02:18 PM
  #1
TaketheCannoli
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Suspensions: Next Time Carve with Your Stick!

An interesting perspective on the suspensions. Michael Arace opines

Quote:
The message I get is this: Itís better to take a five-stride run at a guy from behind, and try to put him through the glass, and cut up his face, and break his nose, and maybe even give him a concussion. Thatís three games or five, depending on your criminal history. But donít lift your elbow, maybe even out of reflex, even if an opponent may be taking a run at you, maybe with intent to injure, and don't make him flop -- especially when you have a rap sheet. No. That might be eight games.

Boarding. Thatís the ticket. Or use the stick. Yeah.
I have to agree, and boarding is more dangerous too!

http://www.dispatch.com/content/blog...uspension.html

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09-28-2011, 02:23 PM
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SmellOfVictory
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The message is supposed to be: play more disciplined. The guy comes off as a kid who got chastised by his parents and is getting all huffy about it. The rules exist because you're supposed to avoid breaking them; any of them. If it means that one thing (e.g. head hits) has to be more severely punished in order to curtail the act, then so be it.

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09-28-2011, 02:27 PM
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Or maybe just keep your emotions in check at the end of a game and it won't cost you half a million dollars.

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09-28-2011, 02:30 PM
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Why would you WANT to be suspended for either amount? The premise here is ridiculous.

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09-28-2011, 02:32 PM
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Well that is some brilliant logic. Give this man the Nobel Price of Suberp Logic, now!

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09-28-2011, 02:35 PM
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Or they could use their brains and just not go steaming into the checks etc.

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09-28-2011, 02:41 PM
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TaketheCannoli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
The message is supposed to be: play more disciplined. The guy comes off as a kid who got chastised by his parents and is getting all huffy about it. The rules exist because you're supposed to avoid breaking them; any of them. If it means that one thing (e.g. head hits) has to be more severely punished in order to curtail the act, then so be it.
You're right, the message is supposed to be play more disciplined. It's really supposed to be about concussions and dangerous play. He has created a situation where boarding or slashing doesn't buy much of a penalty, comparatively. If it's really about concussions and player safety, what about fighting?

Shanny was a ball buster in his prime.

Look out, there's gonna be an epidemic of stickwork and boarding against agitators.

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09-28-2011, 02:41 PM
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Wiz hit a guy in the head after the horn for no reason. I don't buy that it's ok to preempt what might be someone trying to take a run with a shot to the head (there is no evidence that Clutterbuck was going to do anything at all other than maybe shove Wiz and mouth off... uh oh! I know anytime someone might mouth off to me I go ahead and just elbow him in the mouth because I have ultra thin skin ). Wiz is a repeat offender. Suspensions had been handed down already. He knew Shanny wasn't messing around. Head shots have been talked to death over the past year or so, especially since Crosby went down. It was an idiotic move by a guy with a history of acting before he thinks. He got suspended. Hopefully the blow to his check book wakes him up.

Reflex? That's garbage. That argument reminds me of the Bobby Ryan skate stomp, and the Anaheim media trying to play it off as a "reflex". As if Ryan were simply trying to get Blum to move his foot, so he decided to stomp on it. These guys have been playing this sport for their entire lives. They have been in almost every on-ice situation imaginable. How many times have we seen two players glide toward one another after the horn blows only to mouth off and shove back and forth? Now, how many times have we seen one of those players throw out a head shot before the shoving and mouthing off can even begin? A reflex? Either Wiz is incredibly stupid, or he let his emotions get the best of him. Hell, maybe it's both.

One thing I know is that after Weber stupidly let his anger boil over and punched Tyutin in the head at the end of a game the BJ fans were screaming as if Webs shot the poor guy. Yes, it was stupid. Yes, it was dirty. Yeah it deserved a suspension of some sort, and if it happens with Shanny at the helm it will likely get at least three or four games. Was that simply a reflex? And don't give me this crap about how it's entirely different because Clutterbuck threw a questionable hit, and then glided up to Wiz as the time died down. Either an unprovoked blow to the head is dirty, or it isn't.


Last edited by TMI: 09-28-2011 at 02:47 PM.
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Old
09-28-2011, 02:44 PM
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The article is from Columbus yes, but the point is not Wiz. The point is where this can lead. I suspect Shanny will have to treat other violations similarly. When Phaneuf boards next time? 8-10 games.

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09-28-2011, 02:47 PM
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It's time we accept the fact that the NHL just wanted more of it's darling franchises in the playoffs so they had to bring in a few towns no one cares about and kick the **** out of them with unbalanced rulings. Great for all those teams that were on the bubble before expansion, bad for any fans in the new towns, but who cares about them. It's not like the NHL was hurting without their money before expansion.

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09-28-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
You're right, the message is supposed to be play more disciplined. It's really supposed to be about concussions and dangerous play. He has created a situation where boarding or slashing doesn't buy much of a penalty, comparatively. If it's really about concussions and player safety, what about fighting?

Shanny was a ball buster in his prime.

Look out, there's gonna be an epidemic of stickwork and boarding against agitators.
Um... pre-season has been going on for what? 10 days? How has Shannahan created a situation where anything can be considered a constant?

And why try to direct attention away from what Wiz did by saying "what about fighting"? Fighting isn't allowed in the NHL. You get a penalty for it. You can be ejected from the game and suspended for it. The bottom line is the NHL is cracking down on headshots, and Wiz delivered a headshot. He is a repeat offender. As far as anyone can tell it was unprovoked, and even if Clutterbuck were mouthing off you don't do that.

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09-28-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
You're right, the message is supposed to be play more disciplined. It's really supposed to be about concussions and dangerous play. He has created a situation where boarding or slashing doesn't buy much of a penalty, comparatively. If it's really about concussions and player safety, what about fighting?

Shanny was a ball buster in his prime.

Look out, there's gonna be an epidemic of stickwork and boarding against agitators.
There is no logic in this blogs argument. Nobody wants to get suspended at all and he discounts the fact that aside from NHL discipline being an obstacle, his hypothetical player sounds like a psycho and society would judge a hit through the glass that almost killed someone very harshly.

Most importantly, there have been boarding suspensions. The boarding rule is literally put up and read word for word during the Staubitz video, the Shelley video, and the Leblond video.

Did you watch any of the videos?

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09-28-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
The article is from Columbus yes, but the point is not Wiz. The point is where this can lead. I suspect Shanny will have to treat other violations similarly. When Phaneuf boards next time? 8-10 games.
So what you're saying is that Shannahan has to be consistent? I think that's what everyone has been saying since the first suspension of the pre-season was handed down. Why not, I don't know, give it a little more time before we start complaining?

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09-28-2011, 02:54 PM
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He's giving Wisniewski way more credit than he deserves, but the dichotomy between headshots and boarding is getting ****ing ridiculous.


Last edited by struckbyaparkedcar: 09-28-2011 at 04:24 PM.
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09-28-2011, 02:57 PM
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three or five games for boarding? Shelley got 10. This article doesn't know what it's talking about

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09-28-2011, 02:59 PM
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Aquiace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
An interesting perspective on the suspensions. Michael Arace opines



I have to agree, and boarding is more dangerous too!

http://www.dispatch.com/content/blog...uspension.html
OMG, this has to be a joke. That is as stupid as they come. So if a murderer gets 25 years and a rapist gets 10 years, the lesson the murderer gets is that he should have been committed **** instead???

Sounds to me like just old fashion whining that he got caught and blaming both the victim and the judge.

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Old
09-28-2011, 02:59 PM
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KnightofBoston
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A five year old child that just had their ice cream stolen could write a more rational article

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Old
09-28-2011, 03:07 PM
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TaketheCannoli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Wiz hit a guy in the head after the horn for no reason. I don't buy that it's ok to preempt what might be someone trying to take a run with a shot to the head (there is no evidence that Clutterbuck was going to do anything at all other than maybe shove Wiz and mouth off... uh oh! I know anytime someone might mouth off to me I go ahead and just elbow him in the mouth because I have ultra thin skin ). Wiz is a repeat offender. Suspensions had been handed down already. He knew Shanny wasn't messing around. Head shots have been talked to death over the past year or so, especially since Crosby went down. It was an idiotic move by a guy with a history of acting before he thinks. He got suspended. Hopefully the blow to his check book wakes him up.

Reflex? That's garbage. That argument reminds me of the Bobby Ryan skate stomp, and the Anaheim media trying to play it off as a "reflex". As if Ryan were simply trying to get Blum to move his foot, so he decided to stomp on it. These guys have been playing this sport for their entire lives. They have been in almost every on-ice situation imaginable. How many times have we seen two players glide toward one another after the horn blows only to mouth off and shove back and forth? Now, how many times have we seen one of those players throw out a head shot before the shoving and mouthing off can even begin? A reflex? Either Wiz is incredibly stupid, or he let his emotions get the best of him. Hell, maybe it's both.

One thing I know is that after Weber stupidly let his anger boil over and punched Tyutin in the head at the end of a game the BJ fans were screaming as if Webs shot the poor guy. Yes, it was stupid. Yes, it was dirty. Yeah it deserved a suspension of some sort, and if it happens with Shanny at the helm it will likely get at least three or four games. Was that simply a reflex? And don't give me this crap about how it's entirely different because Clutterbuck threw a questionable hit, and then glided up to Wiz as the time died down. Either an unprovoked blow to the head is dirty, or it isn't.
Why do so many people just jump to the conclusion that Columbus sources just jump to Wisniewski's defense and excuse his head shot?

I didn't take the blog post that way, nor do I personally excuse him. I do believe Jody Shelley, Brad Staubitz, and a number of others should either suffer a similar or even greater suspension. Why punish head shots more than more dangerous actions?

I am waiting to see how he handles it when someone like Iginla or Phaneuf, or Bertuzzi violently board someone.

I'm less interested in what Shea Weber (or Gary Suter) does, because it's also less likely, and frankly it's Nashville. They will likely get the death penalty because they play for Nashville.

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Old
09-28-2011, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unstuck View Post
three or five games for boarding? Shelley got 10. This article doesn't know what it's talking about
I believe he means regular season games. Shelley got 5 regular season games. Also, Shelley is a beloved figure in Columbus and is seen as a "good guy" in Central Ohio. He lives there in the off-season.

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09-28-2011, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by unstuck View Post
three or five games for boarding? Shelley got 10. This article doesn't know what it's talking about
Not to mention the author claims that Shanahan was "willing to disregard the Jackets' side of the story." Now, I watched the video, and I distinctly remember Shanahan saying that is Wiz felt like he needed to protect himself he should have done so in a different manner. Then, he says that Clutterbuck was making a "bee-line towards Wizniewski". Bee-line brings to mind someone rapidly moving in a direction with a purpose. In the video, Clutterbuck isn't exactly skating from 30 or 40 feet away. He was gliding towards Wizniewski from about 10-12 feet away. The author continues, "[if Clutterbuck had] no intent to injure - then what was his intent?" I don't know... Clutterbuck likes to run his mouth, like a lot of hockey players. Maybe his intention was to get under Wiz's skin by saying things to him and starting a shoving match? Maybe his intention was to draw a penalty.

I think this guy was drunk when he wrote this. Do blogs like these have to pass through the editor's desk?

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Old
09-28-2011, 03:15 PM
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tarheelhockey
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Does anyone seriously think that a player will willingly take a 3-game suspension but avoid a 6-game suspension?

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09-28-2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
Why do so many people just jump to the conclusion that Columbus sources just jump to Wisniewski's defense and excuse his head shot?

I didn't take the blog post that way, nor do I personally excuse him. I do believe Jody Shelley, Brad Staubitz, and a number of others should either suffer a similar or even greater suspension. Why punish head shots more than more dangerous actions?

I am waiting to see how he handles it when someone like Iginla or Phaneuf, or Bertuzzi violently board someone.

I'm less interested in what Shea Weber (or Gary Suter) does, because it's also less likely, and frankly it's Nashville. They will likely get the death penalty because they play for Nashville.
And that's fine. That's a perfectly valid concern. I think we are all waiting to see how this plays out. Why? Because Shanahan has actively been able to hand down suspensions for less than two weeks now, and it's pre-season. Most of my reaction that you quoted was to the article with a comparison to the Bobby Ryan skate-stomp "reflex" and the uproar after Weber's sucker punch.

The problem with this thread is the article and its premise, as so many others have pointed out. I understand its the opinion of a guy who, I presume, is the beat writer for the Blue Jackets. The guy brings up how Shanahan had delivered his fair share of head shots when he played. Irrelevant. He talks about how he took from this that it's better to board someone than it is to throw an elbow into a guy's head. I get his point, but it's still a dumb one. It's better to assault someone with your fists than it is to assault someone with a baseball bat. You will be punished harshly for both actions, and neither action is good. He rolls off a list of "maybes" at the end. Maybe it was a reflex. Maybe it was an act of trying to protect himself. Maybe Clutterbuck intended to do something to Wiz (though from his body language I don't buy that for a second, and I don't like Clutterbuck at all). Maybe Clutterbuck flopped.

Maybe this guy needs to write a better blog entry.

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09-28-2011, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Not to mention the author claims that Shanahan was "willing to disregard the Jackets' side of the story." Now, I watched the video, and I distinctly remember Shanahan saying that is Wiz felt like he needed to protect himself he should have done so in a different manner. Then, he says that Clutterbuck was making a "bee-line towards Wizniewski". Bee-line brings to mind someone rapidly moving in a direction with a purpose. In the video, Clutterbuck isn't exactly skating from 30 or 40 feet away. He was gliding towards Wizniewski from about 10-12 feet away. The author continues, "[if Clutterbuck had] no intent to injure - then what was his intent?" I don't know... Clutterbuck likes to run his mouth, like a lot of hockey players. Maybe his intention was to get under Wiz's skin by saying things to him and starting a shoving match? Maybe his intention was to draw a penalty.

I think this guy was drunk when he wrote this. Do blogs like these have to pass through the editor's desk?
No, Arace is just an idiot. If he were just a homer writer, he'd be terrible. But he's a homer writer who is a complete ****ing moron as well. I seriously think he's the worst writer in sports.

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09-28-2011, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Does anyone seriously think that a player will willingly take a 3-game suspension but avoid a 6-game suspension?
Exactly. Furthermore, it's not like guys will do any of this more than they were doing it before. Deterrents are still increasing. If they don't increase in a perfectly uniform fashion, so what? It'll get better. I don't think you really believe players are going to go, "Hoooo, I almost elbowed that guy! Good thing I remembered not to...now it's time to BOARD THE **** OUT OF SOMEBODY AND CLUB HIM WITH MY STICK."

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Old
09-28-2011, 03:24 PM
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And leek, honestly if the issue you want to discuss is whether or not Shanahan will be consistent with his rulings you could have created a thread about that while leaving that terrible blog article out of it, or you could have tried to steer the conversation that way in the existing Shanahan thread. Now you'll be lucky to draw people's attention away from how that piece comes across long enough to even read anything else you say on the subject.

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