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The Jagr Thread Part II: Moves Like Jagr

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Old
09-30-2011, 10:40 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
C'mon now, that's not a nice thing to say about the 3/4 roster of Devil regulars!
I know I know...

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09-30-2011, 11:54 AM
  #202
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Just my opinion, but I'll take Jagr and Simmonds right now in last years series vs. the Bruins instead of Carter and Richards. No B.S. That doesn't even include Voracek, Schenn, and Couturier who are all top 8 picks and higher than either Richards or Carter were. It also doesn't include the upgrade in goal of Bryzgalov over Boucher that was at least in part a result of the huge salary dump.

IMO they're best players over the last year were:
Briere
Giroux
JVR
Pronger
Meszaros
Leino
Hartnell

Not Carter or Richards. I don't care about Carters numbers. What are his numbers down the stretch and in the playoffs? Richards is a good player, but looked HORRIBLE the entire 10'-11' season. What a relief not seeing him fumble the puck and create nothing on the pp.

In 5 years people will look back and say that was one of the best trades the franchise has ever made. They went from ZERO prospects to a half dozen while remaining a contender. Brilliant.

This year is going to so exciting. I believe this team will contend and is better than it was last year.
You really think that Leino, Hartnell, and JVR have been better than Richards and Carter? I also see you're one of those people who thinks that Schenn, Voracek and Couturier are better because they were drafted higher. I hate to break it to you, but draft position doesn't mean crap until they've proven themselves on the ice. So far, none of them have.

Richards looked bad in 10-11 because he needed surgery all season, and Carter was money down the stretch..not sure what you were watching. Carter-Giroux kept this team afloat while everyone else was slumping.

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09-30-2011, 12:03 PM
  #203
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I guess Datsyuk and Lundqvist aren't very good then.

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09-30-2011, 12:03 PM
  #204
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I guess Kyle Turris is better then Carter and Richards because he was drafted higher then too right?

GTFO with that stupid nonsense.


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 09-30-2011 at 12:13 PM. Reason: typo
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09-30-2011, 12:05 PM
  #205
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I guess Datsyuk and Lundqvist aren't very good then.
same goes for Kimmo Timonen drafted in the 10th round in 93. just waive the bum already.

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09-30-2011, 12:08 PM
  #206
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I guess Datsyuk and Lundqvist aren't very good then.
Yes, they're terrible.


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Old
09-30-2011, 12:17 PM
  #207
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Carter was not money down the stretch this year...

As far as Richards he was "off" the entire season..the injury played a part but it's been overstated.

Quote:
BUFFALO - Jeff Carter's late-season scoring slump has carried into the playoffs.

Two games. Lots of chances. No goals.

"Obviously it's frustrating," said Carter, who led the Flyers with 36 goals in the regular season. "My role on the team is to put the puck in the net. I've had a couple chances here and there throughout the first two, but I need to start bearing down here and getting them in the net, and help the team out."

Carter has struggled in the postseason throughout his career, collecting just seven goals and five assists in 31 playoff games.

The Flyers and Sabres, knotted at one game apiece in their series, will meet in Buffalo on Monday at 7 p.m.

"As the series goes on, the desperation level has to go up every game," Carter said. "This third game is huge. We gave our home ice away, so we need to go to Buffalo and get it back."

Like Carter, captain Mike Richards is without a point in the series and is trying to get untracked. Including the regular season, Carter has two goals in his last 10 games, and Richards has two goals in his last 11 games.

http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-1...-flyers-goalie

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Old
09-30-2011, 12:20 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Carter was not money down the stretch this year...

As far as Richards he was "off" the entire season..the injury played a part but it's been overstated.
I guess you don't remember all of Feb-March, into early April.

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09-30-2011, 12:25 PM
  #209
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Down the stretch in the last dozen games is what I do recall and what has been posted as evidence..you can just ignore that all you want but it happened.

If you want to expand the def to the last 20, 30, 40 or whatever then that is another argument but the fact remains really close "down the stretch" in the last lap like a horse race and into the playoffs he was "frustrated."

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09-30-2011, 12:30 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Carter was not money down the stretch this year...

As far as Richards he was "off" the entire season..the injury played a part but it's been overstated.
I've never seen a team that played so emotionless just dominate and obliterate opposing teams like the 2010-11 Flyers team did early in the season.

I've also never seen such a dominant team fizzle out at the end while looking as if they just didn't care anymore.

Richards' and Carter's talent level aside, it will be nice if these changes bring the emotion back to Philadelphia hockey.

I'd rather us be a driven underdog than an apathetic paper tiger.

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09-30-2011, 12:32 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Down the stretch in the last dozen games is what I do recall and what has been posted as evidence..you can just ignore that all you want but it happened.

If you want to expand the def to the last 20, 30, 40 or whatever then that is another argument but the fact remains really close "down the stretch" in the last lap like a horse race and into the playoffs he was "frustrated."
I think we have different definitions of "down the stretch."

It should also be noted I was watching those games. Giroux-Carter were our most consistent duo, easily. The entire team was struggling, it's not like it's all on his shoulders.

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09-30-2011, 12:42 PM
  #212
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I never argued it "was all on his shoulders." You are just trying to interject the default hate BS that was done all last year. We may have different definitions of "down the stretch" but I'm not interested in a semantics argument. If I was I would engage VanSciver or Jester.

I'm just pointing out that he had a late season slump that carried over to the playoffs and in his own words he needed to help the team more. At least he was being honest and recognized his own shortfall in his late season slump. More than I can say for some people on this board who make apologies for every stinkin shortfall the guy has and even owns up to himself....

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Old
09-30-2011, 12:56 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
I never argued it "was all on his shoulders." You are just trying to interject the default hate BS that was done all last year. We may have different definitions of "down the stretch" but I'm not interested in a semantics argument. If I was I would engage VanSciver or Jester.

I'm just pointing out that he had a late season slump that carried over to the playoffs and in his own words he needed to help the team more. At least he was being honest and recognized his own shortfall in his late season slump. More than I can say for some people on this board who make apologies for every stinkin shortfall the guy has and even owns up to himself....
I'm not trying to interject with any hate crap, sorry if that's how it came across. On a team where everyone was worn out or in a slump, he and Giroux were the best forwards.

The real question is, do we really want to do this again and derail this thread? The guy is gone, and we've both debated each other ad nauseum on this, we both know how it's going to go, haha.

I'll end with this: from what I've seen so far, I'll take Giroux-Jagr over Giroux-Carter (assuming Jagr can keep it up all season). Carter isn't good at finishing one-timers, and that duo had less chemistry than what Giroux-Jagr seem to already be developing (Has anybody called them the Dynamic Duo yet?). They might not be as responsible defensively, but that might not matter if they can keep the puck.

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09-30-2011, 01:08 PM
  #214
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Ths team did not need Carter, as was shown in the 2010 playoff run. Richards was always a great player, but last year he wasnt right(hand was a mess), but it came down to more than that, he just wasnt comfortable in philly anymore, and he was totally dedicated anymore imo. Coming to camp out of shape, not looking like he was competing on the ice like his usual self. I think after the 2010 run some guys, these two especially just looked like they gave it their all that year and had no more drive.

The players and the team needed a fresh start.

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09-30-2011, 01:28 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
I never argued it "was all on his shoulders." You are just trying to interject the default hate BS that was done all last year. We may have different definitions of "down the stretch" but I'm not interested in a semantics argument. If I was I would engage VanSciver or Jester.

I'm just pointing out that he had a late season slump that carried over to the playoffs and in his own words he needed to help the team more. At least he was being honest and recognized his own shortfall in his late season slump. More than I can say for some people on this board who make apologies for every stinkin shortfall the guy has and even owns up to himself....
It isn't semantics. Invictus is correct. Carter and Giroux carried the team offensivel in the second half of the Season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Ths team did not need Carter, as was shown in the 2010 playoff run. Richards was always a great player, but last year he wasnt right(hand was a mess), but it came down to more than that, he just wasnt comfortable in philly anymore, and he was totally dedicated anymore imo. Coming to camp out of shape, not looking like he was competing on the ice like his usual self. I think after the 2010 run some guys, these two especially just looked like they gave it their all that year and had no more drive.

The players and the team needed a fresh start.
So the Flyers didn't need Carter because they won the Cup in 2010, correct? I'm amazed at that logic. That a fully healthy Carter, at the top of his game wasn't needed in the playoffs. Any chance that if Carter was in mid season form, that it could have helped the Flyers in the Finals?

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09-30-2011, 01:36 PM
  #216
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http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2...that_flye.html


Article on the Devils players' view of Jagr.

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Old
09-30-2011, 01:41 PM
  #217
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It isn't semantics. Invictus is correct. Carter and Giroux carried the team offensivel in the second half of the Season.


Yawn....

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Old
09-30-2011, 03:18 PM
  #218
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Rooting for frosted-tipped, ed hardy wearing, old city clowns always made me die a little bit inside.

Need them or not, I'm glad they're gone.

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09-30-2011, 03:36 PM
  #219
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For the love of Aphrodite Kallipygos, where is jags6868 when we need him? Can't someone say something ridiculous about Jagr (be it good or bad, I don't really think it matters) so we can get this thread back on track.

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09-30-2011, 04:00 PM
  #220
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I've never seen a team that played so emotionless just dominate and obliterate opposing teams like the 2010-11 Flyers team did early in the season.

I've also never seen such a dominant team fizzle out at the end while looking as if they just didn't care anymore.
Clarke's quote after 6/23 told it all. The team started out great and 'went south' and couldn't get it back.

The team was so divided in the room they couldn't muster any semblance of unity of purpose when they needed it on the ice.

The captain's job is to build that common will to win. If the leader only has half the room following, it usually doesn't work, and it didn't.

This team is just as talented as last year's -and with addition of Jagr maybe even moreso. I loved Carter, Richards, Powe and Carcillo. I liked Leino. I hated Versteeg.

I am already loving what Jagr, Simmonds, Voracek, Talbot, Schenn, Couturier, Reid and Rinaldo are bringing in their place.

On top of that, our elite D corp is intact, and we've got fantastic goaltending - better than we've had in years.

Holmgren sucks.

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09-30-2011, 04:02 PM
  #221
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Yawn....
Simple truths are often dull....

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09-30-2011, 04:40 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
It isn't semantics. Invictus is correct. Carter and Giroux carried the team offensivel in the second half of the Season.



So the Flyers didn't need Carter because they won the Cup in 2010, correct? I'm amazed at that logic. That a fully healthy Carter, at the top of his game wasn't needed in the playoffs. Any chance that if Carter was in mid season form, that it could have helped the Flyers in the Finals?
No beause we needed a few saves in the finals, not more goals. We lit up the score sheet, and it wasnt him doing it, our goalie just let us down. I like carter and think he is a great player but for whatever reason he just never seemed to get it done when it counted.

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09-30-2011, 04:44 PM
  #223
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Anyway even though it is preseason while the points and goals are great for Jagr, I think the most positive aspect is that he and Giroux have shown great chemistry and it seems like Jagr is very happy playing with him which is excellent for his morale as well as the teams. If he came in and struggled with his play/linemates it might have set him wrong from the start, but he looks good and its great for a positive attitude heading into the season.

If him and G can transfer this into the start of the season and get going right away the sky is the limit for these two.... could be one of the better tandems seen in awhile.

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09-30-2011, 04:44 PM
  #224
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No beause we needed a few saves in the finals, not more goals. We lit up the score sheet, and it wasnt him doing it, our goalie just let us down. I like carter and think he is a great player but for whatever reason he just never seemed to get it done when it counted.
None of that comes close to justifying the statement that we didn't need a player of Carter's caliber in the playoffs. You need all hands on deck. Certainly, they could have used more goals. They came up short. The Cup winning game was lost in OT was it not?

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09-30-2011, 04:47 PM
  #225
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None of that comes close to justifying the statement that we didn't need a player of Carter's caliber in the playoffs. You need all hands on deck. Certainly, they could have used more goals. They came up short. The Cup winning game was lost in OT was it not?
Because our goalie could not stop a shot a peewee house goalie would stop. Carter was in the lineup that game as well, and although he may have not been 100%, noone in the finals is, anyway I dont want to open this up into a debate about the past, I like the makeup of our team better than last year, and I think its for the best.

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