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Who generally is/was to blame for a goal against (or a faceoff loss)?

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Old
09-27-2011, 07:22 PM
  #26
Canadiens1958
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Excellent

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Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
Watching it, it seems very much like the faceoff was conceded with the intent of getting some intense forecheck early. You can see the winger trying to get a running start off the line even.
Excellent. Set play. Note that prior to the faceoff Beliveau double checks his players, Duff sells the play by acting antsy then times the draw and gets a valuable jump. Mikita is allowed to win the draw cleanly but in doing so concedes the lane towards #3 Pilote.

Pilote #3 is a LHS playing Right Defense. RHS would not be vulnerable since he would simply dump the puck to a free #17 Wharram along the RW boards.

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Old
09-27-2011, 07:28 PM
  #27
Killion
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Well sure. Great lines go to extreme lengths through practice, including the point men. The better the guy is on the draw, the faster he can get it to a winger for a quick release or back to the point for a one-timer, BINGO. Good goalies study & read it, position themselves accordingly. Right or left handed opposing centers right or left of your crease, off wing forwards moving over or milling about; where the defenceman are pinching or in deepish'. Read the centers eyes & body position. Science, knowing your own players strengths & ordering them into position like a QB combined with a good sixth sense works wonders in nullifying the attack should the opposing team win the draw. However, if the puck squirts into a dead zone, all bets are off. If the oppositions on it first & starts to cycle interminably & you fail to get the body in, rather hard to defend against. Im sure the stats back up goals scored from possession off the draw. In deep or at the blue line. Pretty much a no brainer.

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09-27-2011, 07:36 PM
  #28
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Oh Well

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Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
I find faceoffs interesting because I remember Bobby Clarke saying he was expecting to crush the Soviets in '72 because they didn't even seem to put any effort into winning the faceoffs and would be a joke with little intensity.

Then he realized that the Soviet team didn't care to win the faceoffs, and preferred to simply take the puck from their opponents and try to score.


EDIT: It's hard IMO to draw too much from the faceoff win in that Cup game, because the play did have some cycle. It is interesting though that teams everywhere draw the puck backwards, and if you can seize the initiative with a strong forecheck, it makes me wonder if intentionally losing a faceoff from time to time can allow you to get the puck in a better position than otherwise.
Replied too soon. There are set plays for a shot on goal by the offensive player taking the faceoff if the goalie tends to overplay.Slap and chase described early in this thread by tarheelshockey. Plus others where the puck is played forwards. One of the classics involves a spread that springs a fast dman up the middle. Very risky if tried too often.

Question of using a speed, technique, positioning advantage or exploiting a lack of awareness by the opposition.

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09-27-2011, 07:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Question of using a speed, technique, positioning advantage or exploiting a lack of awareness by the opposition.
Sure, but an astute goalie is going to understand that and God forbid he should get beat twice on that high wire act. Tell your extreme right or left or d-man & or winger in the corners to move on over (and dont get in my way if the opposing center pulls if off from the draw; this you scream into their faces if necessary until they "get it"). Some centers are only any good at a backhand draw, some go for the forehand & lean into your guy hoping for a quick shot from his winger (s) in the slot. You cant read that stuff you dont make it out of single 'A'. Which really beggars the question, beyond Brodeur, Thomas & bunch of others, I just dont see a whole lot of smarts in that department from so called top-rungers (Luongo comes to mind). Just not a whole lot of vision let alone communication going on out there....

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09-27-2011, 08:01 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Replied too soon. There are set plays for a shot on goal by the offensive player taking the faceoff if the goalie tends to overplay.Slap and chase described early in this thread by tarheelshockey. Plus others where the puck is played forwards. One of the classics involves a spread that springs a fast dman up the middle. Very risky if tried too often.

Question of using a speed, technique, positioning advantage or exploiting a lack of awareness by the opposition.
Those are exceptionally rare plays in hockey today. I can't actually recall any attempts at a quick shot off a faceoff barring end of period attempts. Even then it's only really viable on 2 of the 9 faceoff circles.

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09-27-2011, 08:17 PM
  #31
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Centers

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Sure, but an astute goalie is going to understand that and God forbid he should get beat twice on that high wire act. Tell your extreme right or left or d-man & or winger in the corners to move on over (and dont get in my way if the opposing center pulls if off from the draw; this you scream into their faces if necessary until they "get it"). Some centers are only any good at a backhand draw, some go for the forehand & lean into your guy hoping for a quick shot from his winger (s) in the slot. You cant read that stuff you dont make it out of single 'A'. Which really beggars the question, beyond Brodeur, Thomas & bunch of others, I just dont see a whole lot of smarts in that department from so called top-rungers (Luongo comes to mind). Just not a whole lot of vision let alone communication going on out there....
Same could be said about the centers. Few can read the opposing alignments and adjust either offensively or defensively. Very few will scramble a draw or play the draw to eliminate the worst case scenario option.

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09-27-2011, 08:36 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Same could be said about the centers. Few can read the opposing alignments and adjust either offensively or defensively. Very few will scramble a draw or play the draw to eliminate the worst case scenario option.
Mikita & Keon were steady hands in that regard. Gretzky, Lemieux as well. Rarely did they get flustered, not have a Plan B/C/D/E for all 10 players on the ice, 11 if you include the goalie and their target of conquest. Cool cucumbers. Hard to read. Hooded glances & nods; tip of the blade, finger signals n'such like secret handshakes & the Illuminati.

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Old
09-27-2011, 08:50 PM
  #33
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Team Language

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Mikita & Keon were steady hands in that regard. Gretzky, Lemieux as well. Rarely did they get flustered, not have a Plan B/C/D/E for all 10 players on the ice, 11 if you include the goalie and their target of conquest. Cool cucumbers. Hard to read. Hooded glances & nods; tip of the blade, finger signals n'such like secret handshakes & the Illuminati.
Each team had its own private system of codes, indicators with traps for recently traded former teammates. Nuanced with misdirects aplenty.

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09-27-2011, 09:05 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Each team had its own private system of codes,
indicators with traps for recently traded former teammates.
Nuanced with misdirects aplenty.
Sixth sense C58.
I see Dead People.
Fool me once OK, but twice?!...

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