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Wishart, Reese, 3 others waived

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Old
09-28-2011, 08:19 PM
  #51
KH1
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt
If they've done this hoping that someone might grab Wishart, I'd have to think this gives us even more reason to believe that Snow's eyes are on someone else at the moment - aside from Staios, who may very well be signed.
Snow has had 5 months to upgrade the defense, and all he could come up with was PTO for Steve Staios. What could possibly make you think that he's got something else up his sleeve now?

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09-28-2011, 09:02 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Volek25 View Post
Wishart looked awful last night, then again so did a lot of guys (cough cough Comeau). Donovan IMO looked like the trade up #12 pick last night, not de Haan. I hate to use this example cause it's just so obvious but after the 30 something yr old and slow skating Jokinen embarrassed the kid in the corner at the end, that should prove that CDH needs to grow up a bit in the A before he steps in w the big boys. Sorry again for using that example on why he doesn't belong, but it was a great representation.
This

That should prove its better to let De Haan grow in the ahl. He is not ready to play with men yet, still needs to fill out and get stronger. Wishart also looked terrible, he needs to get some confidence in his game.

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09-28-2011, 09:07 PM
  #53
Hip Of Rick
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Awful deal by Snow last season comes full cycle. The Wiz deal proved the same. I will give Snow credit for his contracts but his trades he gets little or no value back for his players

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09-28-2011, 09:34 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
Awful deal by Snow last season comes full cycle. The Wiz deal proved the same. I will give Snow credit for his contracts but his trades he gets little or no value back for his players
A 2nd rounder for a poor excuse of a dmen sounds pretty good to me. In the end though, you would think Garth got close to max value because there are 29 other teams in the league making offers. He's not gonna take a negotiated 10th best deal on the table. He took what he thought he could get.

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Old
09-28-2011, 10:35 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Wishart has time to develop, I wouldn't give up on him just yet. But he's clearly not a top 6 defenseman this year on the NYI and that means he likely wouldn't be on any other team.

He may never make it but he certainly has the physical tools to be a good defenseman - if he improves his decision making, positioning, physical play. He doesn't have offensive upside IMO, doesn't have the instincts for that.

This is a bad NYI defense. Staios shouldn't be a top six dman either. The fact that he's better than Wishart isn't a statement on how good Staois is - they are both bad.

Sadly, Mottau and Eaton are better options right now.

I expect a much better defenseman to be available on waivers before the start of the season. I don't expect a trade before the season starts.

I also think deHaan is a LOCK to be on the NHL roster for opening night. Like it or not, that's the way I see things going.

Personally, I don't mind, I think deHaan is ready and capable (certainly more than anyone else we have)


Streit - Hamonic - deHaan - MacDonald - Eaton - Jurcina - Mottau

minors: Donovan, Ness, Wishart, Reese, Klementyev, Katic (injured for a long time)
Im sorry but i have to disagree. Again why are we giving unproven young players top 4 minutes. Throw a kid with almost no NHL experience into a high responsibility role. If he plays it will be after a injury and in a #6 role IMHO (hopefully unless more injuries push him up) The kid should earn that spot not be given it. I know most of you wont want to hear this, but at this stage as of right now i would be more comfortable with eaton juice and even mottau in that spot over dehaan. Make no mistake, i think this kid will be very good but he needs some time

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Old
09-28-2011, 10:44 PM
  #56
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Its not like he could have gotten anything better. What other teams really needed a goalie for the stretch run? He took the best offer he had. You were obviously expecting something unrealistic for Roloson.
We don't know what he could have got and if there is nothing don't make a deal. My feeling TB needed Roloson more than we need another minor leaguer. Point is, this is another player swap muff.
Stay with the rebuild it could take 20 years if you can't make deals

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09-28-2011, 11:10 PM
  #57
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Im sorry but i have to disagree. Again why are we giving unproven young players top 4 minutes. Throw a kid with almost no NHL experience into a high responsibility role. If he plays it will be after a injury and in a #6 role IMHO (hopefully unless more injuries push him up) The kid should earn that spot not be given it. I know most of you wont want to hear this, but at this stage as of right now i would be more comfortable with eaton juice and even mottau in that spot over dehaan. Make no mistake, i think this kid will be very good but he needs some time
First.

i've been screaming for two NHL dmen and two NHL forwards for the past two off-seasons. I've been disappointed every offseason including this past one. I'd prefer Martinek being kept over what we have.

I'd prefer to have 7 better choices than deHaan at this stage....but alas, there aren't.

I don't think there are many defensemen that can jump from junior to the NHL right away. Even if they "could" - why "should" they?! I believe all players should prove their ability in the AHL before the NHL with very few exceptions.

with all that said, we are where we are and guest what...deHaan is better than most defensemen on the Islanders as of today. The fact that Wishart and Reese have been waived, two older, more experienced defensemen that have "seasoning" - that's not a great sign for the state of the dmen core.

The dmen in camp include Ness (played well, will clearly be in the AHL though), Donovan (really promising but destined for the AHL) and the best of the bunch in Calvin deHaan.

Streit, MacDonald, Hamonic, deHaan, Eaton, Jurcina, Staios, Mottau - these are the top eight, from best to worst in terms of their game right now.

Unless something drastic happens between now and October, I think deHaan makes this team.

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09-29-2011, 12:44 AM
  #58
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Good riddance... never thought Wishart was any good at all and even though this pretty much means we gave up Roli for nothing I've never seen such a big body be so afraid to hit someone. Leaves a spot open for someone like a Ness/deHaan to get some NHL experience until AMac comes back.

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09-29-2011, 12:51 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KH1 View Post
Snow has had 5 months to upgrade the defense, and all he could come up with was PTO for Steve Staios. What could possibly make you think that he's got something else up his sleeve now?
Some people are still under the stupid impression that Snow is somehow a master GM.

I don't know how many failure offseasons it's going to take to get through to them, but we've just had another one.

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09-29-2011, 02:05 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
Awful deal by Snow last season comes full cycle. The Wiz deal proved the same. I will give Snow credit for his contracts but his trades he gets little or no value back for his players
Awful at the mall but an artist in the dumpsters.

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Old
09-29-2011, 02:35 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by IslesandHawks View Post
Good riddance... never thought Wishart was any good at all and even though this pretty much means we gave up Roli for nothing I've never seen such a big body be so afraid to hit someone. Leaves a spot open for someone like a Ness/deHaan to get some NHL experience until AMac comes back.
Montoya played better than Roloson did for us, so we didn't lose anything.

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Old
09-29-2011, 06:30 AM
  #62
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by KH1 View Post
Snow has had 5 months to upgrade the defense, and all he could come up with was PTO for Steve Staios. What could possibly make you think that he's got something else up his sleeve now?
Ahhh, very simple.

The final preseason waiver wires.

Snow hasn't hesitated taking Schremp and Grabner in the past. I'm fully expecting that this team knows of a Dman or two it likes who it'll be going after and who'll likely be on waivers.

Especially if Wishart is taken.

Granted, I thought Shaone Morrisonn might be one of those guys.

But with respect to Wishart:
Judging by our talk this summer, not many of us expected him to be one of the top 6 on the Island going into the season. There was a chance, but it wasn't too likely. I actually thought Reese would be the guy who hangs around and sits in the press box until injury/shake up (á la Gervais in the past). Obviously, that would mean that he goes to BPort, where any of the U25 guys should definitely be playing instead of sitting around as Dman 7/8 on the Island.

I wasn't aware that he had the type of contract that required that he go through waivers.

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Old
09-29-2011, 06:48 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MikeyMike01 View Post
Some people are still under the stupid impression that Snow is somehow a master GM.

I don't know how many failure offseasons it's going to take to get through to them, but we've just had another one.
We just experienced a highly successful offseason.

We had a very promising draft including not only a young man who has already spent this offseason showing us a boatload of skill while likely being our top blue chip prospect, but a number of players who all show signs of one day filling an NHL function - with Sundstrom and Pedan way up there on the league-wide 'under-the-radar' list.

We attempted to upgrade the team by trading a 2nd for Erhoff (who is looking wondeful this preseason) and then regaining a 2nd after it was clear that he wasn't going to sign the very fair offer that was made to him. I was shocked that Snow was able to regain a 2nd in the process.

We upgraded on Konopka and Hunter by adding the better and more established Reasoner and Rolston.

We actually managed to get SOMETHING for Gervais, who was clearly not returning.

I'm sorry, but saying "We need and are searching for a top 4 Dman who fits" does not mean it'll be as easy as just going to the store and picking it up. There was hardly anyone who fit the bill on the market this offseason (although I truly believe Sami Lepisto could have been that guy at a reasonable price) and I would greatly suggest that had there been a deal that made sense, it would have been made. That was the case, for example, last summer when we sent the 3rd for a Wisniewski who Anaheim didn't want to pay 3.25 million for.

In other words, there is precedence.

Let's see what the next few days bring. We shouldn't forget that we do have a certain amount of bodies under contract and may have a further option in Staios, who has looked like a bit of an upgrade in the blueline grit department. In addition, would it be anything new and wrong if "The youth will be served" is the case on our blueline to start the season (i.e. de Haan)? Maybe he proves himself very capable of doing what Kulikov did his rookie year?

Another thing - Am I the only one who feels like Donovan might be the surprise of the camp thus far? I'm telling ya, that kid looks exactly like what we were seeing from Erhoff at that age.


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Old
09-29-2011, 07:27 AM
  #64
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I was thinking the same thing on Donovan. I think he is almost ahead of DeHaan.

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09-29-2011, 08:18 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
A 2nd rounder for a poor excuse of a dmen sounds pretty good to me. In the end though, you would think Garth got close to max value because there are 29 other teams in the league making offers. He's not gonna take a negotiated 10th best deal on the table. He took what he thought he could get.
That same dman who signed a huge contract this off season. We got a lousy 2nd rounder mid season for a 5 million dollar dman when at the time we had no rush to trade him. Sounds like a good value

Roloson was also a rushed mid season trade for a project dman. Why keep Martinek last year or Biron the year before to stay on the sinking ship?

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09-29-2011, 09:16 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
That same dman who signed a huge contract this off season. We got a lousy 2nd rounder mid season for a 5 million dollar dman when at the time we had no rush to trade him. Sounds like a good value

Roloson was also a rushed mid season trade for a project dman. Why keep Martinek last year or Biron the year before to stay on the sinking ship?
You really think Wiz is worth 5 mil? That is grossly inflated insane-out-the-ass market value.

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Old
09-29-2011, 09:18 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
That same dman who signed a huge contract this off season. We got a lousy 2nd rounder mid season for a 5 million dollar dman when at the time we had no rush to trade him. Sounds like a good value

Roloson was also a rushed mid season trade for a project dman. Why keep Martinek last year or Biron the year before to stay on the sinking ship?
I truly think Roloson was a special deal. It's only been rumors or 'talk', but word is that Roloson had expressed the desire to be sent to a contending team already the season before, with that possibly even having been the plan when he signed. Snow couldn't find any deals that made sense in 09-10. Roloson stayed with Snow having informed him that he'd make the first possible sensible move in getting him to a contender. Being the soldier he is, Dwayne continued his solid play until he landed in TB. In addition, we had that 3 goalie triangle on the farm and moving Rollie in this deal looked to alleviate that, even if the quality of goaltending on the Island was obviously going to suffer. That was all compounded in Dipi, Lawson, and Poulin then going down in succession.

As for Wisniewski, the question "Why make that trade at that time?" will remain somewhat unanswered, although the team did have 8 Dmen hanging around at the time, if I remember correctly, and the others were either recent veteran additions, young or had no real trade value. Obviously Wisniewski was serving as a top 3 at the time and had like 3-18-21 in 26 games or something. However, I believe there was some disappointment in A) his defensive play (which I'm sure all of noticed as his +/- was abysmal) and B) how he was coming across in the locker room and as a teammate. I certainly had the impression that he was a bit of an abrasive personality. Montreal didn't feel it necessary to keep him despite his 10-41-51 career year.

Of course, we were already dead in the water when those moves were made, so it may all be a bit inconsequential.

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09-29-2011, 09:51 AM
  #68
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Some people are still under the stupid impression that Snow is somehow a master GM.

I don't know how many failure offseasons it's going to take to get through to them, but we've just had another one.
how is this offseason a failure??? wishart going to minors doesn't prove anything...he's 23 if he pans out great if he doesn't i don't view snow as an idiot..everyone is always screaming why cant we get a prospect back in a deal...we finally do and now its he is panning out oh no...

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09-29-2011, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
That same dman who signed a huge contract this off season. We got a lousy 2nd rounder mid season for a 5 million dollar dman when at the time we had no rush to trade him. Sounds like a good value

Roloson was also a rushed mid season trade for a project dman. Why keep Martinek last year or Biron the year before to stay on the sinking ship?
the answer to this question cant be answered until we know what type of player Johan Sundstrom becomes..

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09-29-2011, 09:58 AM
  #70
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So if Wishart goes unclaimed and no surprises our Bridge D looks like this:

Wishart-De Haan
Donovan-Ness
Klementyev-Reese

Am I correct in assuming that would be the 6 d-men down there? If they play remotely close to what they are capable of that might be a dominating 6 in front of Poulin/Nilsson/maybe Koskinen.

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Old
09-29-2011, 10:21 AM
  #71
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So if Wishart goes unclaimed and no surprises our Bridge D looks like this:

Wishart-De Haan
Donovan-Ness
Klementyev-Reese

Am I correct in assuming that would be the 6 d-men down there? If they play remotely close to what they are capable of that might be a dominating 6 in front of Poulin/Nilsson/maybe Koskinen.
Well we don't know about DeHann yet. The Wishart move was surprising since even though he was terrible, he couldn't have a scratched spot on the Isles roster. With that being said, I think DeHann still has a chance or it could signal move to come (just speculating )

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09-29-2011, 10:25 AM
  #72
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Well we don't know about DeHann yet. The Wishart move was surprising since even though he was terrible, he couldn't have a scratched spot on the Isles roster. With that being said, I think DeHann still has a chance or it could signal move to come (just speculating )
I really like De Haan but the way Jokinen just tossed him like a small child when they were on the PP basically confirmed for me that he's not ready for the NHL.

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Old
09-29-2011, 10:28 AM
  #73
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Wishart was never slated to be more than a 7th or 8th on the depth chart.
The wiser move would be to have retained Martinek. 60 games of Marty is an upgrade over Eaton, Mottau, Wishart, Reese, Staios or any of the youngsters by a lot.
If Snow can land a better option off the waiver wire he deserves credit.
I too thought that Morrison was a possible upgrade but we passed. The tales should be told shortly or we will be starting the season a bit behind on the blueline.

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Old
09-29-2011, 10:44 AM
  #74
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Call me crazy but i'm not as concerned with the blueline as much as last season, you have Streit returning, AMac and Hamonic who seem to be cornerstones and then VETERAN guys like Staios, Mottau, Jurcina and Eaton as the top 7 which allows our better prospects like Dehaan, Donovan, Ness and even Klementeyev to play valuable minutes in AHL. We have serviceable guys like Reese and Wishart(who i would be suprised to see get claimed) to fill in short term in the meantime. We probably need a 4th guy after Streit, Hamonic and AMac but that probably will be Dehaan at some point.

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Old
09-29-2011, 11:02 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by malPHONEY View Post
Montoya played better than Roloson did for us, so we didn't lose anything.
We lost... doesn't matter who was playing better than who, we gave a player that was desirable away for what turned out to be nothing. That's a loss in my book.

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