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Old
09-29-2011, 10:31 AM
  #76
ferrisUML
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Think of the move as a good faith gesture. Snow gave Rolo a chance at another deep cup run since he was/is at the twilight of his career.

Seriously, what do some of you expect to get for a 41 y/o goalie? When was the last time a goalie was even traded for anything of real value? In the modern NHL, goalies are largely interchangable...they're taught to block the net not "make saves".

It was a good will gesture by Snow to a solid vet and connsumate pro. ****ing guy can't win around here.

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09-29-2011, 10:51 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ferrisUML View Post
Think of the move as a good faith gesture. Snow gave Rolo a chance at another deep cup run since he was/is at the twilight of his career.

Seriously, what do some of you expect to get for a 41 y/o goalie? When was the last time a goalie was even traded for anything of real value? In the modern NHL, goalies are largely interchangable...they're taught to block the net not "make saves".

It was a good will gesture by Snow to a solid vet and connsumate pro. ****ing guy can't win around here.
Agree entirely. It was a class move by Snow, Roloson was a godd veteran stop-gap who wasn't going to be in the league long enough to be long-term useful to a rebuilding team with a bunch of young goalies. He couldn't have foreseen that three in a row would go down with injuries.

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09-29-2011, 11:03 AM
  #78
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We lost... doesn't matter who was playing better than who, we gave a player that was desirable away for what turned out to be nothing. That's a loss in my book.
But we wouldn't have traded for Montoya, and no one seemed to bring up that deal.

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09-29-2011, 11:15 AM
  #79
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Wishart cleared. Let him hone his skills.

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09-29-2011, 11:28 AM
  #80
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Wishart cleared. Let him hone his skills.
Sort of sucks for him, the Islanders now probably won't call him up in fear somebody will pick him up on call up waivers(basically some team that is out of the playoff race by Jan, might take a flyer on him figuring what do they have to lose, if we attempt calling him up).

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09-29-2011, 11:30 AM
  #81
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Sort of sucks for him, the Islanders now probably won't call him up in fear somebody will pick him up on call up waivers
look at it from the Islanders perspective...

if he's good enough to call up, he's good enough to stay. IF he's not good enough to keep up, what's the big loss?

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09-29-2011, 12:18 PM
  #82
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But we wouldn't have traded for Montoya, and no one seemed to bring up that deal.
I agree. We can look at this deal as Montoya and Wishart for Roloson and a 6th.

I think people are ripping the Roloson trade too much. Goalies have very little value, and if anyone remembers in Roloson's first year of his contract Garth tried to trade him and all he could get was a 3rd round pick. I'd take Wishart (who was ready for at least some games immediately after being traded) over a 3rd round pick at the time.

A lot older goalies (like Toskala and Anderson) also got in return just another young, really bad back up goaltender. I'd much rather have gotten Wishart, who can still pan out to a bottom pairing defenseman, than a guy like Brian Elliott or Curtis McElhinney.

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09-29-2011, 12:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ferrisUML View Post
Think of the move as a good faith gesture. Snow gave Rolo a chance at another deep cup run since he was/is at the twilight of his career.

Seriously, what do some of you expect to get for a 41 y/o goalie? When was the last time a goalie was even traded for anything of real value? In the modern NHL, goalies are largely interchangable...they're taught to block the net not "make saves".

It was a good will gesture by Snow to a solid vet and connsumate pro. ****ing guy can't win around here.
Semyon Varlamov was just traded for a likely lottery pick and a second rounder.

Obviously his value is different from Roloson's (though Rolo is a far superior goalie,) but it's not like there's never any market for goalies.

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09-29-2011, 12:29 PM
  #84
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Semyon Varlamov was just traded for a likely lottery pick and a second rounder.
Obviously his value is different from Roloson's (though Rolo is a far superior goalie,) but it's not like there's never any market for goalies.
To this day I still don't understand this deal. A lottery pick is way too much to give for a guy that can't stay healthy(regardless of potential).

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09-29-2011, 12:34 PM
  #85
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A GMs job is not to "win" a trade, it's to make the team better. The Montoya example is a great one. Why should Snow be evaluated for the Roloson deal in isolation? I believe's Snow's objective was to maximize return BUT ALSO to possibly accommodate Roloson who played like a warrior for almost 2 years, or to save money by trading him sooner than later (something Wangman surely appreciates). But he replaced Roloson with Montoya which was not exactly a step backwards.

And so we don't lose sight on Snow's overall success or failure as a GM, it's less about trades & more about wins/losses, how team needs are addressed, how does he manage assets in order to drive success/progress.

This is where the jury's still out.

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Old
09-29-2011, 12:37 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
We just experienced a highly successful offseason.

We had a very promising draft including not only a young man who has already spent this offseason showing us a boatload of skill while likely being our top blue chip prospect, but a number of players who all show signs of one day filling an NHL function - with Sundstrom and Pedan way up there on the league-wide 'under-the-radar' list.

We attempted to upgrade the team by trading a 2nd for Erhoff (who is looking wondeful this preseason) and then regaining a 2nd after it was clear that he wasn't going to sign the very fair offer that was made to him. I was shocked that Snow was able to regain a 2nd in the process.

We upgraded on Konopka and Hunter by adding the better and more established Reasoner and Rolston.

We actually managed to get SOMETHING for Gervais, who was clearly not returning.

I'm sorry, but saying "We need and are searching for a top 4 Dman who fits" does not mean it'll be as easy as just going to the store and picking it up. There was hardly anyone who fit the bill on the market this offseason (although I truly believe Sami Lepisto could have been that guy at a reasonable price) and I would greatly suggest that had there been a deal that made sense, it would have been made. That was the case, for example, last summer when we sent the 3rd for a Wisniewski who Anaheim didn't want to pay 3.25 million for.

In other words, there is precedence.

Let's see what the next few days bring. We shouldn't forget that we do have a certain amount of bodies under contract and may have a further option in Staios, who has looked like a bit of an upgrade in the blueline grit department. In addition, would it be anything new and wrong if "The youth will be served" is the case on our blueline to start the season (i.e. de Haan)? Maybe he proves himself very capable of doing what Kulikov did his rookie year?

Another thing - Am I the only one who feels like Donovan might be the surprise of the camp thus far? I'm telling ya, that kid looks exactly like what we were seeing from Erhoff at that age.
That's absolutely insane.

The Isles took a team that finished a full 20 points out of a playoff spot, and added a decent 4th line center, a washed up 38 year old winger, and a 37 year old defenseman who couldn't crack any other lineup in hockey. We actually managed to lose depth from last season.

I agree that getting a top 4 defenseman is hard. It's supposed to be hard! That's why Garth Snow is getting paid a ******** of money to be the GM--it's his freaking job to upgrade the team! Instead, we're going into the season with a mediocre, injury prone defense and absolutely no depth behind it.

That's "highly successful?" Because we got future considerations for Gervais, and got another kid with a lottery pick that we earned by sucking so badly?

Meanwhile, all of our rivals for the last playoff spot have been making significant, tangible upgrades. And the Isles are just sitting on their hands and hoping that this team magically improves by itself (and, apparently, that not a single defenseman gets hurt at any point during the season.)

If this was wildly successful, I'd love to hear your definition of failure.

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09-29-2011, 12:44 PM
  #87
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FWIW, that was probably the right time to waive Wishart to minimize the likelihood of a claim by another team. Everyone is making cuts to get their teams down to the limits and are probably not looking to add another fringe player/prospect. If they kept him to start the year and then waived him, but that time teams might have had injuries or realized after a few games that their own kids weren't going to cut it and Wishart might've had more appeal.

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Old
09-29-2011, 01:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
First.

i've been screaming for two NHL dmen and two NHL forwards for the past two off-seasons. I've been disappointed every offseason including this past one. I'd prefer Martinek being kept over what we have.

I'd prefer to have 7 better choices than deHaan at this stage....but alas, there aren't.

I don't think there are many defensemen that can jump from junior to the NHL right away. Even if they "could" - why "should" they?! I believe all players should prove their ability in the AHL before the NHL with very few exceptions.

with all that said, we are where we are and guest what...deHaan is better than most defensemen on the Islanders as of today. The fact that Wishart and Reese have been waived, two older, more experienced defensemen that have "seasoning" - that's not a great sign for the state of the dmen core.

The dmen in camp include Ness (played well, will clearly be in the AHL though), Donovan (really promising but destined for the AHL) and the best of the bunch in Calvin deHaan.

Streit, MacDonald, Hamonic, deHaan, Eaton, Jurcina, Staios, Mottau - these are the top eight, from best to worst in terms of their game right now.

Unless something drastic happens between now and October, I think deHaan makes this team.
I've been watching dehaan for a very long time and I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on the isles d depth chart. I truly hope they do not give him a spot on the opening roster. He is not ready. Give him a half a year in the bridge at the very least. People look at hamonic and say look he did it. Why not dehaan. They are two different style players and completly built differently

Edit: Im sorry this does bother me a lil bit. How can you say that this kid is the 4th best defenseman on this team, when he has not even played or proved anything in the AHL let alone even in the NHL? On top of that he had a crappy preseason IMO. This truly boggles me and am very curious about the thought process behind that.


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Old
09-29-2011, 01:46 PM
  #89
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Sort of sucks for him, the Islanders now probably won't call him up in fear somebody will pick him up on call up waivers(basically some team that is out of the playoff race by Jan, might take a flyer on him figuring what do they have to lose, if we attempt calling him up).
The rules for recall waivers are different than for sending him down and I believe he is exempt.

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Old
09-29-2011, 02:01 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by KH1 View Post
That's absolutely insane.

The Isles took a team that finished a full 20 points out of a playoff spot, and added a decent 4th line center, a washed up 38 year old winger, and a 37 year old defenseman who couldn't crack any other lineup in hockey. We actually managed to lose depth from last season.

I agree that getting a top 4 defenseman is hard. It's supposed to be hard! That's why Garth Snow is getting paid a ******** of money to be the GM--it's his freaking job to upgrade the team! Instead, we're going into the season with a mediocre, injury prone defense and absolutely no depth behind it.

That's "highly successful?" Because we got future considerations for Gervais, and got another kid with a lottery pick that we earned by sucking so badly?

Meanwhile, all of our rivals for the last playoff spot have been making significant, tangible upgrades. And the Isles are just sitting on their hands and hoping that this team magically improves by itself (and, apparently, that not a single defenseman gets hurt at any point during the season.)

If this was wildly successful, I'd love to hear your definition of failure.
Well said my friend.

We may spend another season wonder just how good this team could by IF some veteran talent was added, not only in terms of talent upgrades, but depth.

Already going into the season we have 2 D men who are mending from injuries, and both veteraaannnn additions have been injured throughout training camp. Rolston hasn't seen a game, and as per Staple he may not this weekend.

It's misguided to think there won't be injuries, however, we are in yet another situation here that in order for this team to even sniff a PO spot they will need a healthy roster.

Another blown offseason, regardless of the intrinsic reasons.

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Old
09-29-2011, 02:09 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
We just experienced a highly successful offseason.

We had a very promising draft including not only a young man who has already spent this offseason showing us a boatload of skill while likely being our top blue chip prospect, but a number of players who all show signs of one day filling an NHL function - with Sundstrom and Pedan way up there on the league-wide 'under-the-radar' list.

We attempted to upgrade the team by trading a 2nd for Erhoff (who is looking wondeful this preseason) and then regaining a 2nd after it was clear that he wasn't going to sign the very fair offer that was made to him. I was shocked that Snow was able to regain a 2nd in the process.

We upgraded on Konopka and Hunter by adding the better and more established Reasoner and Rolston.

We actually managed to get SOMETHING for Gervais, who was clearly not returning.

I'm sorry, but saying "We need and are searching for a top 4 Dman who fits" does not mean it'll be as easy as just going to the store and picking it up. There was hardly anyone who fit the bill on the market this offseason (although I truly believe Sami Lepisto could have been that guy at a reasonable price) and I would greatly suggest that had there been a deal that made sense, it would have been made. That was the case, for example, last summer when we sent the 3rd for a Wisniewski who Anaheim didn't want to pay 3.25 million for.

In other words, there is precedence.

Let's see what the next few days bring. We shouldn't forget that we do have a certain amount of bodies under contract and may have a further option in Staios, who has looked like a bit of an upgrade in the blueline grit department. In addition, would it be anything new and wrong if "The youth will be served" is the case on our blueline to start the season (i.e. de Haan)? Maybe he proves himself very capable of doing what Kulikov did his rookie year?

Another thing - Am I the only one who feels like Donovan might be the surprise of the camp thus far? I'm telling ya, that kid looks exactly like what we were seeing from Erhoff at that age.
We traded a 4th for his rights and obtained a 4th from Buffalo.

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Old
09-29-2011, 02:30 PM
  #92
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We are worried about roloson and wishart?

What we should be worrying about is health and a competitive team. Wishart was at best a 6 - 8 defenseman on this team. Roloson was always going to be a BACKUP. Roloson was not going to bring back much in a trade (free agency is another story), period, end of story.

Montoya is still a BACKUP.

Wishart is what he is a young pup, who does not use his body well enough and is not fast enough to float around.

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Old
09-29-2011, 02:32 PM
  #93
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That's absolutely insane.

The Isles took a team that finished a full 20 points out of a playoff spot, and added a decent 4th line center, a washed up 38 year old winger, and a 37 year old defenseman who couldn't crack any other lineup in hockey. We actually managed to lose depth from last season.

I agree that getting a top 4 defenseman is hard. It's supposed to be hard! That's why Garth Snow is getting paid a ******** of money to be the GM--it's his freaking job to upgrade the team! Instead, we're going into the season with a mediocre, injury prone defense and absolutely no depth behind it.

That's "highly successful?" Because we got future considerations for Gervais, and got another kid with a lottery pick that we earned by sucking so badly?

Meanwhile, all of our rivals for the last playoff spot have been making significant, tangible upgrades. And the Isles are just sitting on their hands and hoping that this team magically improves by itself (and, apparently, that not a single defenseman gets hurt at any point during the season.)

If this was wildly successful, I'd love to hear your definition of failure.
Insane? Hardly...

The upgrade to this team's fortunes is to come primarily via four things, and not a one of them hinges on adding the desired top 4 Dman:
A) Return to full speed by Streit and Okposo
B) The continued improvement of our young studs, particularly Tavares up front and MacDonald and Hamonic on the blueline
C) That at least one of our plethora of goaltenders plays like an above average #1
D) Much, much better fortunes in the health department

If these things happen, we make the playoffs.

Snow did not have to go outside the organization for a one of them. His work consisted of the proper tweakage.

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Old
09-29-2011, 02:34 PM
  #94
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We traded a 4th for his rights and obtained a 4th from Buffalo.
My mistake. All the better...

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09-29-2011, 02:43 PM
  #95
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Another blown offseason, regardless of the intrinsic reasons.
Well, it's not like any of us thinks this team goes into every offseason asking itself "What do we need and who do we need to get to win the Stanley Cup next season?"

I know the idealists feel every GM should go into the offseason asking himself just that, but we darn well know that reality is a much, much different thing.

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09-29-2011, 02:44 PM
  #96
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Random Thought:

If Jurcina is out for a couple games would it make sense to just claim a D-man off waivers(i.e. Bobby Sangunetti) to sit on for the 7th dman(just in case) instead of making callups so early in the season?

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09-29-2011, 02:52 PM
  #97
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Random Thought:

If Jurcina is out for a couple games would it make sense to just claim a D-man off waivers(i.e. Bobby Sangunetti) to sit on for the 7th dman(just in case) instead of making callups so early in the season?
I think we're going to see a Dman claimed off of waivers - of course, I've felt that way for a month now.

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Old
09-29-2011, 03:06 PM
  #98
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The Isles took a team that finished a full 20 points out of a playoff spot, and added a decent 4th line center, a washed up 38 year old winger, and a 37 year old defenseman who couldn't crack any other lineup in hockey. We actually managed to lose depth from last season.
Ok, coming back to your post, I do agree about this.

As a fan I'm not happy about having seen Martinek and Hillen walk just so that we bring in Staios as a tryout player. Even if he signs, I'd rather have each of the other two.

I believe Snow was trying other things that haven't panned out yet (it takes two to tango) and of course there's always that preseason waiver wire, which I think he'll be making use of.

Then again, I wouldn't put it past this team to have run prospects camp looking to see if it felt that a Katic, de Haan or even Donovan was pretty much ready for some role on the Island. I dislike seeing a team plan that way, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

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Old
09-29-2011, 03:15 PM
  #99
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Wishart looked awful last night, then again so did a lot of guys (cough cough Comeau). Donovan IMO looked like the trade up #12 pick last night, not de Haan. I hate to use this example cause it's just so obvious but after the 30 something yr old and slow skating Jokinen embarrassed the kid in the corner at the end, that should prove that CDH needs to grow up a bit in the A before he steps in w the big boys. Sorry again for using that example on why he doesn't belong, but it was a great representation.
Players get thrown around. I dont see it as such a big deal as you make it out to be. Think back to last preseason. Molson checks Striet into the boards during a scrimmage. Similar looking hit, caught striet off gaurd and off balance. I dont see anyone else questioning striets NHL worthyness.

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09-29-2011, 04:09 PM
  #100
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Semyon Varlamov was just traded for a likely lottery pick and a second rounder.

Obviously his value is different from Roloson's (though Rolo is a far superior goalie,) but it's not like there's never any market for goalies.
That was a really dumb and overpayment move by Colorado. There is though value for goalies but when Rolie was traded how many teams needed a goalie?? Not many.

I am fine with the trade then and today same goes for Wiz trade. Wiz signed for about the same as Tavares, he is not a great defense man

People getting upset over trades from last year that didn't hurt our team or prospect pool are just petty. For God sakes, Mike Milbury was our GM and look at his trades.

Garth has done fine in all his trades for the most part in my opinion. People here think everyone is worth a 1st round pick.

I hope Garth follows up on the future considerations from Chicago or else

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