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NYI/CHI Trade Proposal

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Old
08-23-2004, 12:01 PM
  #1
disles1
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NYI/CHI Trade Proposal

To NYI--Daze, Babchuk
To CHI--Hammer, Kvasha

Salaries close, Chi would take on a little more.
Chi gets a top 4 dman who can move the puck and a young C,LW who had good #'s last yr. and NYI gets a top line winger for Yash and a young defensive dman.
Both teams take on some risk---is Daze recovered? Will Kvasha keep improving?
Trade fair? Thoughts?

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08-23-2004, 12:09 PM
  #2
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Leaves NYI shallow on the Blue line, as babchuk is far from a sure bet on a top four (as much as I do like him) and we don't really have any other defensemen capable of the spot left by Hammer. Daze is also quite soft, and in many ways too similar to Yashin.

Even having said that, Chicago seems unlikely to bite, and would likely have little interest in Kvasha.

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08-23-2004, 12:19 PM
  #3
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Well... Hamrlik is unsigned, 30 years old, and the league is heading into a CBA negotiations period out of which many are expecting the UFA age to fall from its current 31 years of age.

If the Islanders managed to get Hamrlik signed to a reasonable, multi-year deal, I could see his subsequent trade value being pretty high, but for a defenseman who can play at a very high level, his uncertain status really has a deleterious effect on his trade value right now.

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08-23-2004, 12:33 PM
  #4
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In my humble Ottawa based opinion, you'd be better off trading Yashin to Chicago (who love the Russian players) and getting a package back. You've seen what Cashin does now for a couple of years. It will get worse, don't worry. Chicgao is the one team (Rangers aside) that could afford that ridulous contract and give him Russians to play with - and send you back some players.

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08-23-2004, 12:41 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
To NYI--Daze, Babchuk
To CHI--Hammer, Kvasha

Salaries close, Chi would take on a little more.
Chi gets a top 4 dman who can move the puck and a young C,LW who had good #'s last yr. and NYI gets a top line winger for Yash and a young defensive dman.
Both teams take on some risk---is Daze recovered? Will Kvasha keep improving?
Trade fair? Thoughts?

I'm not sure I'd do this as an Islander fan. I like Babchuk, but he is a few years away. I'd personally rather try and sign Hamrlik to a longterm deal if possible.

Daze is not he kind of winger we need. We need guys with grit and drive.

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08-23-2004, 12:42 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operasen
In my humble Ottawa based opinion, you'd be better off trading Yashin to Chicago (who love the Russian players) and getting a package back. You've seen what Cashin does now for a couple of years. It will get worse, don't worry. Chicgao is the one team (Rangers aside) that could afford that ridulous contract and give him Russians to play with - and send you back some players.

When he is not having injury problems, Yashin has basically been a 30 goal 70 point man.

I'm not thrilled with his contract, of course, but he still has a valuable role to fill on the Island.

And, besides that, I see possibility that the ChiHawks would want to take on that ridiculous contract.

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08-23-2004, 12:43 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operasen
In my humble Ottawa based opinion, you'd be better off trading Yashin to Chicago (who love the Russian players) and getting a package back. You've seen what Cashin does now for a couple of years. It will get worse, don't worry. Chicgao is the one team (Rangers aside) that could afford that ridulous contract and give him Russians to play with - and send you back some players.
Nobody would take Yashin in a million years. He's not going anywhere.

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08-23-2004, 12:45 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Well... Hamrlik is unsigned, 30 years old, and the league is heading into a CBA negotiations period out of which many are expecting the UFA age to fall from its current 31 years of age.

If the Islanders managed to get Hamrlik signed to a reasonable, multi-year deal, I could see his subsequent trade value being pretty high, but for a defenseman who can play at a very high level, his uncertain status really has a deleterious effect on his trade value right now.
Completely agree.

That said, I think Hamrlik's trade value will be high one way or the other - at the deadline. I think he could be a valuable trade chip if the Isles want to move him to a contender. But, if they do that, that will mean they are not seeing themselves as playoff bound, and in that case, Aucoin may be more likely to get moved.

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08-23-2004, 12:52 PM
  #9
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Why trade a player of Hammer's caliper when you have guys like Demitra, who in my opinion is a lot better fit on the wing, who could be had for nothing, if Wang decides to open his checkbook.

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08-23-2004, 12:57 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckU
Why trade a player of Hammer's caliper when you have guys like Demitra, who in my opinion is a lot better fit on the wing, who could be had for nothing, if Wang decides to open his checkbook.
I've been saying for weeks, months that Demitra would be a great fit with the isles but the checkbook issue has been a problem now for almost three years.

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08-23-2004, 01:06 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Completely agree.

That said, I think Hamrlik's trade value will be high one way or the other - at the deadline. I think he could be a valuable trade chip if the Isles want to move him to a contender. But, if they do that, that will mean they are not seeing themselves as playoff bound, and in that case, Aucoin may be more likely to get moved.
I agree to a point. Under normal circumstances, all things being equal and going solely on his level of play, Hamrlik should have tremendous trade value. He's a bona fide, solid, two-way #2, in my opinion at least, on a team with three, maybe four of the same.

Yet even though as a likely pending UFA, he will retain "high" deadline trade value for a contender, such deals involve good prospects, picks, young NHL players. That is solid value, but when you give up a legit #2 for that kind of return, it's a bit of a shame, because he should be worth more than that. Teams with money get those players signed before shopping them; others may not have the luxury, and the NYI sit astride the have and have not camps.

Part of the problem I have stems from the fact that it seems Islanders fans are not sure whether the team is trying to modestly rebuild or stock up, advance further towards contention, or tread water in a kind of limbo of uncertainty between the two. If they entertain thoughts of competing, as any team building its payroll around Yashin's contract must, then trading him for prospects/picks could be seen as a step back. If they want to restock, then that changes matters.

Some fans may prefer one course over another, but few seem to be confident about which way the team's management is in fact leaning. I have to say I do not know myself.

EDIT: typo


Last edited by Drake1588: 08-23-2004 at 01:27 PM.
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Old
08-23-2004, 01:07 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
I've been saying for weeks, months that Demitra would be a great fit with the isles but the checkbook issue has been a problem now for almost three years.
Do you really think the Isles need ANOTHER nonphysical forward who doesn't produce in the playoffs?

And, if the Isles let hamrlik walk, and then signed Demitra, who would be your replacement in the top four. Are you comfortable with Martinek or Sven B. in the top four? I'm sure not.

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08-23-2004, 01:30 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Do you really think the Isles need ANOTHER nonphysical forward who doesn't produce in the playoffs?

And, if the Isles let hamrlik walk, and then signed Demitra, who would be your replacement in the top four. Are you comfortable with Martinek or Sven B. in the top four? I'm sure not.
When did I say let Hammer walk? I have been saying for MONTHS that we need a winger for Yash and a tough dman. If we sign Demitra as a UFA then I would be happy to Trade Hammer for a tough dman like J. Smith (save some $$, gain leadership, toughness). I'm not worried about Demitra's playoffs---he is almost a point per game player who will be 30 in Nov.---he would be a valuable addition to our team IMO.

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08-23-2004, 01:38 PM
  #14
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EDM wouldn't trade Jason Smith for Hamrlik because Jason Smith makes a lot less. Besides, Jason Smith will be an UFA next summer.

Demitra has been a point-per-game player, but Yashin also was a guy who put up lots of points during the regular season. The problem is that both disappear in playoff games. We need a playoff warrrior, not another guy who disappears in tough situations.

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08-23-2004, 01:59 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
To NYI--Daze, Babchuk
To CHI--Hammer, Kvasha

Salaries close, Chi would take on a little more.
Chi gets a top 4 dman who can move the puck and a young C,LW who had good #'s last yr. and NYI gets a top line winger for Yash and a young defensive dman.
Both teams take on some risk---is Daze recovered? Will Kvasha keep improving?
Trade fair? Thoughts?
At first glance I'd say the Islanders would say no. I'll let their fans say exactly why. I'd say Hamrlik > Daze and Kvasha > Babchuk.

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08-23-2004, 01:59 PM
  #16
disles1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
EDM wouldn't trade Jason Smith for Hamrlik because Jason Smith makes a lot less. Besides, Jason Smith will be an UFA next summer.

Demitra has been a point-per-game player, but Yashin also was a guy who put up lots of points during the regular season. The problem is that both disappear in playoff games. We need a playoff warrrior, not another guy who disappears in tough situations.
Hammer can be a UFA as well---trade him for someone like Smith--IF we get the top winger.

Playoff warriors ie M Messier in his prime do not grow on trees. Besides give these guys more of a chance before you make that determination of them. There are alot of example of players who did well in the playoffs after a series of bad ones. Barry Bonds in baseball for example was considered a playoff bust until his monster 2002 playoffs. Patrick Ewing was a playoff warrior BTW and how many titles did he win? Being a warrior is nice but it is not the only factor when it comes to adding a guy to your team. It is more, does he fit? IMO Demitra fills a need for the isles, a fast scoring left handed shot, that will open up the ice for Yash and give him many more options---much better than what he has had for the past three years.

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08-23-2004, 02:00 PM
  #17
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Chicago wouldn't give up Babchuk for Hammerlik. Its that simple, pass.

Babchuk will turn 20, he's 6'5" skates well, and had the hardest shot in the AHL. He is still raw, but if you think the hawks are still "a few years away", then why in the hell do you trade a 20 year old kid, for a 30 year old?

If you are looking for a market this offseason, look no further than Vinnie Prospal. He and his 50+ pts got all of a 2nd rounder(and he cost 2.5 per).

I like Hammer as a player- he's a very good defenseman. But you'd have to be crazy to give up that much for him on a team that will(at best) fight for the 8th spot.

A 2nd round pick and a mid tier prospect is all Hammer is worth(at most), even as good as he is.

-fullmetalninja

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08-23-2004, 02:03 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regdunlap7
At first glance I'd say the Islanders would say no. I'll let their fans say exactly why. I'd say Hamrlik > Daze and Kvasha > Babchuk.
I'd agree with you but I suspect many Chi fans to reject this proposal---so I think it's pretty close. For the isles they would love to get Babchuk, a big tough dman who is close to being ready for the NHL.

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08-23-2004, 02:18 PM
  #19
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Hmmm

I think the Hawks would get the better end. Roman Hamrlik was an all-star defensman a year or so ago. Eric Daze is one of the best left wings in the game --- but that`s when he isn`t injured. And I agree, Daze isn`t the forward we need. Ziggy Palffy needs to sign with NYI. Milbury should offer as much money as possible. Yashin needs that kinda winger.

Isles shouldn`t do this trade though because they are losing a very valuable defensman. Our main problem has been our defense not be physical enough in front of the net. Trading away Hamrlik makes that problem even worse.

Isles should not do this trade though. Too much of a risk. They should completly avoid the Hawks. They need to trade Hammer to Atlanta for Shawn McEachern and cash/prospects/draft picks. McEachern played with Yashin in OTT when Yash put up MVP type numbers. It was McEachern, Yashin, and Dackell. McEachern was the speed on the line, Dackell made up for Yashin lacking defense, and Yash was obviously the sniper. They were known as the Ministry of Offense.

Then they need to trade Kvasha to Anaheim for Keith Carney. He is the crease clearer we need.

Finally --- they sign Ziggy Palffy. Then you have a powerful line. McEachern, Yashin, and Palffy.

Final roster would look like this:

McEachern - Yashin - Palffy (Even in McEachern doesn`t work out, just swap him with Parrish. Move McEachern to 3rd line and move Blake up to take Parrish`s spot. McEachern is a great leader as well)
Parrish - Peca - Hunter
Weinhandl - Scatchard - Blake
Webb - Papineau - Bergenheim

Aucoin - Jonsson
Niinimaa - Martinek
Carney - Caldwell

DiPietro
Dubey




PS
Where did you hear this trade proposal from anyway?

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08-23-2004, 02:21 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regdunlap7
At first glance I'd say the Islanders would say no. I'll let their fans say exactly why. I'd say Hamrlik > Daze and Kvasha > Babchuk.

Babchuk is a pretty good prospect. I'd trade Kvasha for him, even though Oleg is a lot more proven.

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08-23-2004, 02:24 PM
  #21
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We don't need to win now, and that would be the purpose of bringing someone such as Hammer in. Hammer will be gone in a few years to free agency, and we will not be a contender at that time. I'll take my luck with Babchuk, who probably won't ever be as good as Hammer in his prime, but isn't too significantly far off. Daze is a much better player than Kvasha - when he's healthy. Daze is risky, but if he CAN stay healthy, then we have a 30 goal scorer (or the whereabouts) compared to the ~15 goal Kvasha.

The Isles will lose a #1 dmen while still in somewhat of a state of playoff contention, and may wind up with an injured Daze. The hawks will lose one of their top prospects and potentially a 30 goal scorer. Both sides lose.

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08-23-2004, 02:26 PM
  #22
disles1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmetalninja
Chicago wouldn't give up Babchuk for Hammerlik. Its that simple, pass.

Babchuk will turn 20, he's 6'5" skates well, and had the hardest shot in the AHL. He is still raw, but if you think the hawks are still "a few years away", then why in the hell do you trade a 20 year old kid, for a 30 year old?

If you are looking for a market this offseason, look no further than Vinnie Prospal. He and his 50+ pts got all of a 2nd rounder(and he cost 2.5 per).

I like Hammer as a player- he's a very good defenseman. But you'd have to be crazy to give up that much for him on a team that will(at best) fight for the 8th spot.

A 2nd round pick and a mid tier prospect is all Hammer is worth(at most), even as good as he is.

-fullmetalninja
Is the goal to make the playoffs and compete for the cup or aquire as many prospects as possible? Is 30 really that old? Chi is a up and coming team with a good prospect base and if they are in contention for the playoffs next year or in three years Hammer will still be a good player. Have you heard of Chelios, Messier, Hull etc etc etc players will compete at a very high level after age 30. Chi is also getting a 6'5" 26 year old center who had 50+ points that should only get better. Seems close in terms of value.

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08-23-2004, 02:30 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Is the goal to make the playoffs and compete for the cup or aquire as many prospects as possible? Is 30 really that old? Chi is a up and coming team with a good prospect base and if they are in contention for the playoffs next year or in three years Hammer will still be a good player. Have you heard of Chelios, Messier, Hull etc etc etc players will compete at a very high level after age 30. Chi is also getting a 6'5" 26 year old center who had 50+ points that should only get better. Seems close in terms of value.
That's somewhat disingenuous. Rights to Hamrlik are likely set to expire, so a team that trades for him has to plan as though he is only guaranteed to be on the roster through July 1, 2005. No, 30 years old is not old, but 30 years old could be over the new UFA bar, and that makes him a rental for a season, unless a team decides to pay him top dollar, and he wants to stay on top of that. To have anything like the value you describe, he would need to be signed first, by the Islanders, to a multi-year deal at a reasonable annual salary.

Heck, if the Hawks want him badly, he wants to play there, and they want to pay him, they may well have the option of waiting until July and signing him then... because this is a player who is staring freedom in the face on the not-too-distant horizon.


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08-23-2004, 02:36 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
That's somewhat disingenuous. Rights to Hamrlik are likely set to expire, so a team that trades for him has to plan as though he is only guaranteed to be on the roster through July 1, 2005. No, 30 years old is not old, but 30 years old could be over the new UFA bar, and that makes him a rental for a season, unless a team decides to pay him top dollar, and he wants to stay on top of that. To have anything like the value you describe, he would need to be signed first, by the Islanders, to a multi-year deal at a reasonable annual salary.
Ok, I agree he would have to signed to a deal (3yrs 10 mill?) before his value would be this high.

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08-23-2004, 02:37 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Part of the problem I have stems from the fact that it seems Islanders fans are not sure whether the team is trying to modestly rebuild or stock up, advance further towards contention, or tread water in a kind of limbo of uncertainty between the two....Some fans may prefer one course over another, but few seem to be confident about which way the team's management is in fact leaning.
Truer words never spoken.

And it's a reflection of the dithering ways of the GM (make a slew of trades of youth for established NHLs...then essentially do nothing for the last three years) moreso than anything else why we NYI fans cannot agree.

I've noticed that this pronounced difference of opinion among fans is greater with NYI than other on this board.

***

As for the trade proposal: aside from the astute comments already made, I know I do not want my team taking a chance on a guy (Daze) just months removed from a serious, long-term injury.

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