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Why does our Blueline get no respect?

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Old
10-02-2011, 06:21 PM
  #51
iamitter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droller View Post
You are missing a PP quarterback from being considered top of the league.

Who is supposed to QB the power play this season? Del Zotto?
Uhhhhh Richards. That's like one of the main reasons we got him.

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10-02-2011, 06:28 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Richards
Sorry... I guess he will "run" the power play as he plays point on PP... Who will be the D man with him? Staal?

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10-02-2011, 06:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by droller View Post
Sorry... I guess he will "run" the power play as he plays point on PP... Who will be the D man with him? Staal?
Right now the first unit is 5 forwards.

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10-02-2011, 07:15 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
He definitely is. He is a top-10 defensive dman in the league, if not better.

After Hank he is the player who we can least afford to lose for an extended period of time.
Staal is very important to the Rangers because he and Girardi have experience and the rest of our group is very inexperienced. They are particularly good on the penalty kill together where we looked lost in pre season w/o him.
In so far as Staal being a top 10 or better defenseman in the league, that's a pipe dream. He's solid but not even close to being rated in the category as of yet.

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10-02-2011, 07:20 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Staal is very important to the Rangers because he and Girardi have experience and the rest of our group is very inexperienced. They are particularly good on the penalty kill together where we looked lost in pre season w/o him.
In so far as Staal being a top 10 or better defenseman in the league, that's a pipe dream. He's solid but not even close to being rated in the category as of yet.
Defensive d-men? He's easily there.

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10-02-2011, 07:53 PM
  #56
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Fun fact:
Staal is steel in norwegian. fits

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10-02-2011, 07:55 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Staal is very important to the Rangers because he and Girardi have experience and the rest of our group is very inexperienced. They are particularly good on the penalty kill together where we looked lost in pre season w/o him.
In so far as Staal being a top 10 or better defenseman in the league, that's a pipe dream. He's solid but not even close to being rated in the category as of yet.
Defensively he 100% is. Thus why I said "defensive defenseman".

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10-02-2011, 09:38 PM
  #58
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top 5 for sure, but I like the top 3 idea

I think Hank posts another season of 30 wins and double digit shutouts

ho hum

I think the success of the season will boil down to an improved powerplay and then getting past the first round of the playoffs.

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10-02-2011, 11:20 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Defensive d-men? He's easily there.
That's your opinion even though its wrong. It's not that difficult to find 10 defensemen in the league that are better than Staal defensively. That's not a knock on him because there are many solid defensive defensemen thruout the league that most fans don't get the opportunity to see play that often.

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10-02-2011, 11:46 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Defensively he 100% is. Thus why I said "defensive defenseman".
We can go around in circles all day about this. From my standpoint, I see Staal as a solid defenseman who qualifies as a good 1st pairing guy for the Rangers. However, he would not be a 1st pairing guy on many teams thruout the league. He is without a doubt very important to the Rangers along with Girardi because they are both experienced(4+ years in the league), play well together and are excellent penalty killers(probably their best attribute). What I and many other fans have noticed about the two of them especially Staal is that he frequently makes poor reads and lousy decisions when getting the puck out of our zone and also when pinching in(he was dreadful at this in the 2009/10 season constantly being caught out of position). The good thing is Staal is still young and will continue to improve his game. Like I said, we all have our opinions and we can beat this topic to death, but in my opinion, he is not even close to being a top defenseman in the league.

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10-03-2011, 01:36 AM
  #61
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To me, it doesn't get any respect because it has no big point getter (yet). It's pretty much that simple IMO. The bluelines that get the respect contribute on both ends of the ice. Defense is underrated, you want to be big time in everyone's eyes you need a Lidstrom, Keith, Seabrook, Weber, etc.

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10-03-2011, 02:07 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
That's your opinion even though its wrong. It's not that difficult to find 10 defensemen in the league that are better than Staal defensively. That's not a knock on him because there are many solid defensive defensemen thruout the league that most fans don't get the opportunity to see play that often.
Then name them, if his opinion is wrong.

Defensively, Staal is definitely there. Offensively absolutely not, but as a defensive presence yes.

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10-03-2011, 07:13 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
he is not even close to being a top defenseman in the league.
Pretty much everyone else would disagree with you

Hockey News top 20
1. Lidstrom
2. Weber
3. Chara
4. Keith
5. Pronger
6. Doughty
7. Boyle
8. Seabrook
9. Suter
10. Yandle
11. Myers
12. Letang
13. Markov
14. STAAL

Who's missing from that list that is better than Staal?

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Old
10-03-2011, 09:48 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Pretty much everyone else would disagree with you

Hockey News top 20
1. Lidstrom
2. Weber
3. Chara
4. Keith
5. Pronger
6. Doughty
7. Boyle
8. Seabrook
9. Suter
10. Yandle
11. Myers
12. Letang
13. Markov
14. STAAL

Who's missing from that list that is better than Staal?
On basically all those lists, Staal is top 20 - and the other top 19 are big point getters. That kind of shows how good he is defensively.

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10-03-2011, 11:24 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Just judging from posts arounf HF as well as my various fantasy leagues, hockey friends etc.

Am I just a homer for our blueline because it's homegrown?

I think it's shaping up to be better than average.

The #1 diss I hear is that we don't have a #1 d man, and when I scoff and offer Staal I have to say I'm surprised at how little respect he gets simply because he doesn't have better offensive stats.

Is the new NHL just all about D men having to put up points to be Elite?
Well, truth be told, Staal isn't a legit #1 defenceman.

He's an absolute lock as a top pairing defenceman, but he's no all around #1 defenceman.

Not a knock, just his skillset doesn't lend to that role.

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10-03-2011, 02:43 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Then name them, if his opinion is wrong.

Defensively, Staal is definitely there. Offensively absolutely not, but as a defensive presence yes.
I agree with you that Staal has a definite defensive presence especially on the penalty kill with Girardi. However, he doesn't have the skillset to be a top all around defenseman in the league. This is not a knock on him, it's just a fact of life.

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10-03-2011, 02:45 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
To me, it doesn't get any respect because it has no big point getter (yet). It's pretty much that simple IMO. The bluelines that get the respect contribute on both ends of the ice. Defense is underrated, you want to be big time in everyone's eyes you need a Lidstrom, Keith, Seabrook, Weber, etc.
That's exactly it in a nutshell.

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10-03-2011, 02:58 PM
  #68
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I would say we have a solid poor man's defense. Staal, Girardi, McDonagh and Sauer might usually be totally ok defensively, but they are all pretty lousy with the puck. None of them are particulary good passers and we can struggle even getting out of our zone, without giving the puck up. It is during these struggles we can be lucky to have a star goalie.

That's what sticks out, IMO and why it isn't a top defense. They're only good when we don't have the puck. When any of them try to pinch, it usually ends in an oddman rush the other way, they're horrible at it.

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10-03-2011, 03:48 PM
  #69
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Our D doesn't get respect because, despite the feelings of a lot of people on here, it isn't proven.

DelZotto, McDonagh and Sauer are not proven NHL defensemen. DelZotto hasn't proven he can play an NHL level defensive game. McDonagh has barely played half a season, so he hasn't shown that he can handle the rigors of 82 games of NHL hockey. Sauer hasn't proven that he can stay healthy enough to be a long-term player.

Do I personally have doubts, especially about McDonagh and Sauer? Not really. Sauer's propensity for injury worries me a little, but I think they'll both be fine NHL D for a long time. DelZotto is a bigger question mark.

So, the Rangers have 3 proven NHL defenseman, one of whom is a bottom pairing guy. Not exactly a group one should respect if you're just looking at the team's roster. We, as Rangers fans, are pretty sure we know better. However, we could easily be wrong.

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Old
10-03-2011, 06:00 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Pretty much everyone else would disagree with you

Hockey News top 20
1. Lidstrom
2. Weber
3. Chara
4. Keith
5. Pronger
6. Doughty
7. Boyle
8. Seabrook
9. Suter
10. Yandle
11. Myers
12. Letang
13. Markov
14. STAAL

Who's missing from that list that is better than Staal?
These are the defensemen I would add to the above list; these players are probably not better than Staal is defensively, but they are way more productive as all around players:
-Kronwall
-Jack Johnson
-J Carlson
-E. Karlson
-Pietrangelo
-Burns
-M Green
-E Johnson
-Visnovsky
-Enstrom
-Ehrhoff

That's 11 more defensemen off the top of my head. You can even make a case for defensemen like Subban, Begosian, Edler, Bieksa, Seidenberg, Wiesznewski, Streit, Big Buff , Dion and Boummeister.
All of the defensemen above are superior offensively. That doesn't necessarily mean that all of these defensemen would better serve the needs of the Rangers as presently configured better than Staal does.(More than likely, they wouldn't)
Personally, I'm happy with our defense and the overall direction the team is headed. Now, if we can only get our hands on Weber or Parise next year!

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10-03-2011, 06:05 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
These are the defensemen I would add to the above list; these players are probably not better than Staal is defensively, but they are way more productive as all around players:
-Kronwall
-Jack Johnson
-J Carlson
-E. Karlson
-Pietrangelo
-Burns
-M Green
-E Johnson
-Visnovsky
-Enstrom
-Ehrhoff

That's 11 more defensemen off the top of my head. You can even make a case for defensemen like Subban, Begosian, Edler, Bieksa, Seidenberg, Wiesznewski, Streit, Big Buff , Dion and Boummeister.
All of the defensemen above are superior offensively. That doesn't necessarily mean that all of these defensemen would better serve the needs of the Rangers as presently configured better than Staal does.(More than likely, they wouldn't)
Personally, I'm happy with our defense and the overall direction the team is headed. Now, if we can only get our hands on Weber or Parise next year!
Well said, I'd also add in Hamhuis.

I think Marc Staal is somewhat overrated, top 20? Sure, but top 10 overall and top 5 defensively is pushing it.

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10-03-2011, 06:13 PM
  #72
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MDZ is a borderline retard.

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10-03-2011, 06:48 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
-Kronwall
-Jack Johnson
-J Carlson
-E. Karlson
-Pietrangelo
-Burns
-M Green
-E Johnson
-Visnovsky
-Enstrom
-Ehrhoff
Literally none of those players are better than Staal defensively. No one is saying he is a top-10 all around defenseman.

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Old
10-04-2011, 12:07 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Well said, I'd also add in Hamhuis.

I think Marc Staal is somewhat overrated, top 20? Sure, but top 10 overall and top 5 defensively is pushing it.
You, I and a lot of fans I know are on the same page regarding Staal. Some of my friends believe that if his name was smith or john doe, he would be looked at for what he really is, a good defensive defenseman who is not the best skater, falls down a lot, is not that great positionally, doesn't make great reads, and makes terrible decisions on his pinches in the offensive zone(although they've gotten better than 2 yrs ago). In fact, Sauer is hands down our best d-man fundamentally speaking in that he is rarely out of position and makes good reads most of the time. McDonagh is a terrific skater and also is very sound fundamentally.
There all still young and have an opportunity to grow and improve though.

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10-04-2011, 12:29 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
MDZ is a borderline retard.
Lol! I don't see MDZ ever really becoming a decent defenseman so he better be great offensively or we won't be seeing him around for too long. Just think, we picked MDZ at #19 or 20? in the 2008 draft when John Carlson of the Capitals(a real #1 guy) was there for the picking. Guess Gordie Clark aint such a draft guru after all.

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