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Lombardi Playing Tonight: Re-Evaluating the Trade?

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Old
10-07-2011, 09:35 AM
  #176
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I'll be honest, it ate at me a little when he scored last night in a "you can do that for them but not for us (grumble grumble)" kind of way. But now he's gone, he's in a new uniform and I'm over it.

I hope he plays enough games to get us some sort of return, but you know, if he doesn't then we can thank Poile for getting him off the books. It wasn't like he played long enough for me to even consider him a Predator. In my mind, he's kinda like Bombardir or Jon Sim. Or Vopat.

Go Preds!

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10-07-2011, 10:04 AM
  #177
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I forgot to add in the replacement salary for Lombardi. In light of that, lop off an additional million dollars if we had simply chosen the buyout route. In other words, save 2.73 million spread out over 4 years with a buyout, or save 2.73 million now at the expense of franson. Likely 4th round pick our way as well. Meh.

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10-07-2011, 10:34 AM
  #178
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I forgot to add in the replacement salary for Lombardi. In light of that, lop off an additional million dollars if we had simply chosen the buyout route. In other words, save 2.73 million spread out over 4 years with a buyout, or save 2.73 million now at the expense of franson. Likely 4th round pick our way as well. Meh.
We couldn't have bought Lombardi out while injured ... the great catch-22 we went through with both him and Sullivan. This season we save approx 2.73 mil AFTER the buyout of Lebda and figuring in Smith's salary. Next season we save an additional $2+ mil (Lombardi's 3.5 gone - Smith's salary - the Lebda buyout).

Franson was replaceable for us. Apparently for Toronto as well.


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10-07-2011, 10:36 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
yes, but if you remember Cube has made improvements several times only to suffer setbacks.

all we ever heard from lombardi was that he was still out, no better, yadda yadda yadda and then he gets traded and has a "miraculous" recovery.. and I say miraculous because by August we were hearing that Lombardi's concussion symptoms were gone and that all that he had were pains not related to his concussion.

I'm not saying its for certain that he was exaggerating his symptoms... but it sure is a suspicious timeline..
When did you become a doctor?







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10-07-2011, 10:42 AM
  #180
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When did you become a doctor?







:-)
He's the only doc I've seen write a prescription for Jack.

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10-07-2011, 10:44 AM
  #181
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lol, so your favorite doc then?


Funny, I'm "bone and razed" in Nashville and I'm not a Jack fan. Love some Crown though.

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10-07-2011, 10:48 AM
  #182
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lol, so your favorite doc then?


Funny, I'm "bone and razed" in Nashville and I'm not a Jack fan. Love some Crown though.
Crown has never brought us back from behind ... Jack has.

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10-07-2011, 12:27 PM
  #183
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Thank God Franson started the first game as the 7th dman... the Poile apologists just wouldn't have anything to say.

Franson isn't the villian people are making him out to be. I would easily taking him over Hillen & Ekholm at this point, and Klein on some days. He isn't a rock in the defense zone, but +15 and + 10 the last 2 years would suggest he isn't a major liability. Not to mention the offense he brings...

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10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
  #184
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I can't wait 'till we get to the point where every loss here could have been a win but wasn't 'cause Franson wasn't on the PP point.

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10-07-2011, 01:13 PM
  #185
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Jack is such a gentleman....see what I did there? don't worry, I got this!

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10-07-2011, 01:13 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Thank God Franson started the first game as the 7th dman... the Poile apologists just wouldn't have anything to say.

Franson isn't the villian people are making him out to be. I would easily taking him over Hillen & Ekholm at this point, and Klein on some days. He isn't a rock in the defense zone, but +15 and + 10 the last 2 years would suggest he isn't a major liability. Not to mention the offense he brings...
His +/- is exaggerated because of situations he played in. If he were to play the lines that Klein played against it would be a much different story. Klein is light years better defenseman then Franson will ever be.

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10-07-2011, 01:28 PM
  #187
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His +/- is exaggerated because of situations he played in. If he were to play the lines that Klein played against it would be a much different story. Klein is light years better defenseman then Franson will ever be.
I abhor that +/- statistic ... I don't judge a player on their +/- anyway ... Corsi is a much better judgement on a player's game as is giveaways/takeaways among other things

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10-07-2011, 01:44 PM
  #188
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It all started with the Ronning trade. If we had held on to Ronning, we'd have 2 banners hanging from the ceiling by now.

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10-07-2011, 01:47 PM
  #189
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I believe Franson's Corsi rating was third among defensemen last season.

Of course, his QUALCOMP was dead last, his hits were second to last, his blocked shots were second to last, he started the most shifts in the offensive zone, and he finished the least amount of shifts in the offensive zone.

So, pretty much what a lot of people have been saying. Good offensively. Lacking defensively (mainly a mobility issue).

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10-07-2011, 02:02 PM
  #190
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I agree that Franson's big drawback is his agilit. If he had the agility of Klein, he'd be a much better defenseman than Klein, IMO. I'd still take Franson over Klein on some days.. Klein is just STUPID at times. And at this point, I'd easily take Frasnon over Hillar, Ekholm, Boullion, Laakkso. Maybe guys like Laakso and Eklholm will eventually be better, but I'm not expecting it for a while...

I think Franson will be a regular on the Leafs soon. I think it's mainly an adjustment issue, and Wilson is trying to push him a bit. Either that, or Burke will package him for something... TO is pretty deep defensively.

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10-07-2011, 02:28 PM
  #191
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Franson over Bouillon makes sense. I think everyone would agree. Franson over Ekholm to start the season, perhaps, but Ekholm should surpass Franson with a little polishing. Laakso is a completely different type of defenseman. If you're looking for offense then it's a no brainer. If you're looking for solid defense then Laakso wins easily. The same goes for Klein. Hillen scored seven fewer points than Franson last season while playing, I believe, 16 fewer games. Franson has a higher career PPG average, but not by a huge margin. I'm not sure if Franson's that much better offensively to make up for the clear advantage Hillen has in the mobility department. We'll find out soon

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10-07-2011, 03:25 PM
  #192
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It's wishful thinking that the newbs will be better than Franson. We all hope it, but until it happens, they are just unproven prospects that may or may not pan out. And unfortunately, ready or not, they HAVE to play because we don't have veteran depth.

People can say Franson had "sheltered" ice time, but at the end of the day, he helped more than he hurt.

But this issue is just part of it. We gave him away with a now healthy top 6 forward, and we had to thrown in another million to buy out Lebda. Sure it's easy to say that now (though many weren't happy at the time), but it's a GM's job to predict outcomes and maximize assets. Poile didn't do that here.

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10-07-2011, 03:33 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's wishful thinking that the newbs will be better than Franson. We all hope it, but until it happens, they are just unproven prospects that may or may not pan out. And unfortunately, ready or not, they HAVE to play because we don't have veteran depth.

People can say Franson had "sheltered" ice time, but at the end of the day, he helped more than he hurt.

But this issue is just part of it. We gave him away with a now healthy top 6 forward, and we had to thrown in another million to buy out Lebda. Sure it's easy to say that now (though many weren't happy at the time), but it's a GM's job to predict outcomes and maximize assets. Poile didn't do that here.

As of right now we traded away a bottom 6 forward and #7 d-man and cleared a few million from the books. Until Lombardi and Franson play their way up the depth chart, they remain unproven this season. The exact same doubts you have about the youngsters we have on the roster apply to Lombardi's health and Franson's ability to ever progress above a #5-7 defender.

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10-07-2011, 03:35 PM
  #194
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It's wishful thinking that the newbs will be better than Franson. We all hope it, but until it happens, they are just unproven prospects that may or may not pan out. And unfortunately, ready or not, they HAVE to play because we don't have veteran depth.

People can say Franson had "sheltered" ice time, but at the end of the day, he helped more than he hurt.

But this issue is just part of it. We gave him away with a now healthy top 6 forward, and we had to thrown in another million to buy out Lebda. Sure it's easy to say that now (though many weren't happy at the time), but it's a GM's job to predict outcomes and maximize assets. Poile didn't do that here.
"No, no, you don't understand. There's no silver lining. I don't care if that part of the cloud looks shiny, THERE IS NO SILVER LINING. Why aren't you as depressed and angry about this as I am? You're not validating my feelings here!"

Franson isn't much more proven than those kids, and neither is Lombardi's ability to stay in the lineup. There's still plenty of unknown variables - only these don't cost over seven million dollars.

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Old
10-07-2011, 04:06 PM
  #195
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"No, no, you don't understand. There's no silver lining. I don't care if that part of the cloud looks shiny, THERE IS NO SILVER LINING. Why aren't you as depressed and angry about this as I am? You're not validating my feelings here!"

Franson isn't much more proven than those kids, and neither is Lombardi's ability to stay in the lineup. There's still plenty of unknown variables - only these don't cost over seven million dollars.
"No, No, Poile can do no wrong, ever. He's amazing! No matter how blatant it is he messed up here, he still did the right thing. If you say you don't like a move, you hate the team and are depressed."


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10-07-2011, 04:18 PM
  #196
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My thought for the day: I hate that we had to give Lombo away just to get rid of Franson's dead weight.



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10-07-2011, 04:19 PM
  #197
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Don't take Franson being the #7 on the Leafs the wrong way. They are so deep on D and no one expected Gardiner to crack the lineup out of camp. Franson will get a lot of ice time on the Leafs it'll just take a bit of time for the Leafs to sort out. In 1-2 months I wouldn't be surprised if the Leafs moved a defenseman in a package for a top six forward.

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10-07-2011, 04:24 PM
  #198
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My thought for the day: I hate that we had to give Lombo away just to get rid of Franson's dead weight.
"I'm so over this thread, but I'm still going to post my opinion in it."

My fact for the day: Franson wasn't dead weight. 30 points (8 goals) in limited ice time. +10, +15 the past two years. We aren't replacing Shea Weber, but we are replacing a contributing player.

Franson won't remain as a #7 on the Leafs. He'll either be a regular or they will trade him because of their depth. He's already established himself as a #5 in this league.

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10-07-2011, 04:28 PM
  #199
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Crown has never brought us back from behind ... Jack has.
Oh, I beg to differ my friend... I would supply you with examples but the memory loss thing is a side effect.

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10-07-2011, 04:45 PM
  #200
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When did you become a doctor?







:-)
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He's the only doc I've seen write a prescription for Jack.
the shingle on the wall says 1990, but the first time I raised a hockey team from the dead was October 12, 2005

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