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AAA 2011 Frederic McLaughlin Final: #1 St. John's Ice Caps vs. #2 Springfield Indians

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Old
11-19-2011, 09:54 PM
  #1
VanIslander
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AAA 2011 Frederic McLaughlin Final: #1 St. John's Ice Caps vs. #2 Springfield Indians

The Frederic McLaughlin Divisional Final


St. John's Ice Caps

coach Bruce Boudreau

Armand Mondou - Jimmy Carson - John Anderson
Shawn McEachern (A) - Walt McKechnie - Petr Klima
Curtis Brown - David Legwand - Ric Seiling
Keith McCreary (A) - Bill Derlago - Floyd Smith
Real Chevrefils, Dennis Ververgaert

Al MacNeil (C) - Paul Cavallini
Ed Kea - Yuri Shatalov
Dale Rolfe - Jean Potvin
Todd Gill, Brent Burns

Jake Forbes
Frank McCool


vs.


Springfield Indians

coaches Cooney Weiland, Darryl Sutter

Lars-Erik Lundvall - Nils Nilsson - Leroy Goldsworthy
Bep Guidolin - Alexander Semak - Bill Hicke
Fredrik Modin - Tom Fergus (A) - Mike Johnson
Stephane Matteau - Travis Zajac - Scott Walker
Paul Stastny, Alexander Martynyuk

Leo Lamoureux - Kevin McCarthy (A)
Robert Picard - Larry Cahan (C)
Hal Gill - Derek Morris
Muzz Patrick

Tommy Salo
Gilles Villemure



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11-20-2011, 02:05 PM
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Congrats on winning your series, guys. Best of luck in this series!

St. John's Ice Caps



General Manager: Velociraptor
Head Coach: Bruce Boudreau
Captain: Al MacNeil
Assistant Captains: Keith McCreary, Shawn McEachern


Armand Mondou - Jimmy Carson - John Anderson
Shawn McEachern - Walt McKechnie - Petr Klima
Curtis Brown - David Legwand - Ric Seiling
Keith McCreary - Bill Derlago - Floyd Smith
Spares: Real Chevrefils LW, Dennis Ververgaert RW

Al MacNeil - Paul Cavallini
Ed Kea - Yuri Shatalov
Dale Rolfe - Jean Potvin
Spares: Todd Gill, Brent Burns

Jake Forbes
Frank McCool

PP1: Klima - Carson - Anderson - Cavallini - Potvin
PP2: McEachern - McKechnie - Mondou - MacNeil - Shatalov

PK1: Mondou - Derlago - MacNeil - Kea
PK2: Seiling - McKechnie - Rolfe - Shatalov


Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor
I believe this is a very strong 200-foot team, that can get equal work done at both ends of the ice.

The first line includes two fine two-way players, centered by a highly one-dimensional player in Jimmy Carson. With the presence of the two defensive forwards, Carson should be able to grasp some offensive freedom where both of his wingers can either contribute offensively or defensively.

Similar mentality on the second line, Petr Klima is a defensive liability, but he can be an explosive offensive player, and with a reliable two-way player in McEachern and a defensive playmaking centre in McKechnie, Klima should be able to get his desirable offensive chances, and should have a good chance to capitalize on most of his opportunities.

My third line is very defensive minded, with unspectacular, but potential offensive flair. Legwand is sound defensively, and also is known to be somewhat proficient offensively. Curtis Brown doesn't have much to input offensively, but his defense is a key factor to this lines skill. He should be able to grind out some of the Indians top players, as our desired matchup is our third line vs. Detroit's first. Ric Seiling is a strong defensive player who got recognition for Selke voting during his career.

My fourth line is also more defensive minded, but can also chip in offensively. Bill Derlago had some great years offensively. He also was known for his penalty killing and faceoff prowess. Keith McCreary was a steady, hard-working leader. He will be relied upon to provide the best in both assets of the game. Floyd Smith is unspectacular offensively, but was known as a serviceable two-way player. He benefited from having Norm Ullman on his line as he is great on the corners, so he can surely use Derlago's offense to his advantage.

Both of my spares, Chevrefils and Ververgaert are both offensively efficient players, Ververgaert can also play in a bottom-six position as he is moderate defensively.

My defensive core is predominantly defensive minded, but I do possess a few strong offensive players. Al MacNeil, is more of a defensive defenseman, but he is also fairly capable of finding the forwards' sticks with strong, efficient passing. He's paired with Paul Cavallini who is a strong two-way defenseman who had some great years offensively. Ed Kea and Yuri Shatalov are a rough pairing, Shatalov can occasionally pinch with his blazing speed and Kea will occupy his usual stay-at-home style. They should be a nightmare for the Indians' offensive lines to cross the blueline.
Dale Rolfe and Jean Potvin are a contrasting pair, as Rolfe was the massive defensive defenseman who didn't do much in the offensive category where Jean Potvin was a shining offensive rearguard who was a huge plus on the power play.

Todd Gill was a tough customer who contributed leadership and offense. Brent Burns is a giant, progressing defenseman who can play efficiently at both ends of the ice.

Jake Forbes is a very underrated goaltender IMO, and besides the fact that Earl Robertson, Forbes eventual successor, won a Stanley Cup, I don't think Forbes is far behind at all, or not even behind Robertson. Frank McCool had a short, but memorable career, with Forbes being a steady goaltender, McCool will not see too much time.

Bruce Boudreau is the coach of this team, I know what most of you are saying (he hasn't accomplished anything besides an Adams?) He turned around a team who was last place a month into the season, and made them into a serious contender. He also seems to get the most out of his players. He was also very respected throughout the league before he was hired as head coach.
I'll be adding some insight and views on the series in the coming days.

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11-20-2011, 04:50 PM
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PP1: Lundvall - Nilsson - Modin - McCarthy - Picard
PP2: Guidolin - Semak - Hicke - Morris - Lamoureux
PK1: Zajac - Goldsworthy - Gill - Cahan
PK2: Fergus - Johnson - Lamoureux - Morris

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11-20-2011, 08:08 PM
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Indians game plan: Match the physical Picard-Cahan pairing against Jimmy Carson

Carson is undoubtedly the greatest offensive talent in this series, but will he be willing and able to fight through the punishment?

Probably not.

Quote:
In fact, the few changes made have backfired. The Kings lost their most inspirational and physical defenseman, Marty McSorley, a player who was the epitome of Coach Barry Melrose's system. Instead, they concentrated on signing center Jimmy Carson to a three-year, $3.3-million contract. Carson, who has three goals in 17 games, is not a prototypical Melrose player and has difficulty fitting into the up-tempo, gritty system.
-Everyone has learned how to beat the Kings, LA Times, Nov 30, 1993

From a thread on hfboards called "What happened to Jimmy Carson?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman_88888888 View Post
from what i remember, carson demanded out of edmonton to go to detroit where he wasn't able to thrive for some reason or another. his game was pretty soft and he didn't have the heart or the work ethic to keep going. he was a good skater and had awesome hands and vision so i just figure he either folded under the pressure or burned out (my guess is the latter).
correct me if i'm wrong.
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Originally Posted by TheStig View Post
Carson came from a good family and as been stated, he has made money away from the game and thrived from a finacial point of view. However, he never loved the game and it was proven in the way he played.
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Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
The 'other' JC was a terrible skater. He had great hands but was softer than a poached egg. He didn't have that burning passion to win and just kinda faded into obscurity.

Sounded like a nice guy. Just not the elite player he was pegged to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Actually his numbers for his first couple of seasons were most definitely elite numbers.

I guess it's always baffling when someone has that much ability, but doesn't really even like the sport. I think Alexander Daigle is another guy like that, he's said on record that he doesn't even like to play hockey, lol.
Picard-Cahan should be able to neutralize the soft Jimmy Carson with their physical play. Carson's linemates are described as "hard workers" or "two way" players, but neither was anything close to the type of power forward who could protect him. Matching Picard-Cahan against Carson also allows Lamoreux-McCarthy to focus more on supporting the offense.

Given Bruce Boudreau's poor record at getting Alexander Ovechkin away from checkers in the playoffs (how many shifts did he have without Hal Gill all over him two years ago for example?), I expect Cooney Weiland to be able to get this matchup most of the time.

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11-20-2011, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Indians game plan: Match the physical Picard-Cahan pairing against Jimmy Carson

Carson is undoubtedly the greatest offensive talent in this series, but will he be willing and able to fight through the punishment?

Probably not.



-Everyone has learned how to beat the Kings, LA Times, Nov 30, 1993

From a thread on hfboards called "What happened to Jimmy Carson?"







Picard-Cahan should hopefully neutralize the soft Jimmy Carson with their physical play. Matching them against Carson allows Lamoreux-McCarthy to focus more on supporting the offense.
We're aware that the Indians second pairing is very physical, and we will try to take advantage of our last change to keep our coveted offensive superstar off the ice while Cahan occupies the blue line. Even when the Ice Caps first line is out at the same time as the Indians physical pairing, our two defensive forwards: Armand Mondou and John Anderson, will intervene the rugged defenders hit parade.

We'll also engage in a similar mentality and pair our physical pairing against the Indians top line, which a fairly good composed line of two players with proven chemistry, and a strong two-way player in Leroy Goldsworthy. But with a strong amount of physicality on all four of our forward and defense lines, it could prove to be very exhausting and take a toll on the oppositions players from constantly being outworked defensively.

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11-20-2011, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
We're aware that the Indians second pairing is very physical, and we will try to take advantage of our last change to keep our coveted offensive superstar off the ice while Cahan occupies the blue line. Even when the Ice Caps first line is out at the same time as the Indians physical pairing, our two defensive forwards: Armand Mondou and John Anderson, will intervene the rugged defenders hit parade.
Mondou and Anderson were two-way players (actually, was Mondou's offense good enough for him to be called "two-way?") But I haven't seen any evidence that either was particularly physical.

Quote:
We'll also engage in a similar mentality and pair our physical pairing against the Indians top line, which a fairly good composed line of two players with proven chemistry, and a strong two-way player in Leroy Goldsworthy. But with a strong amount of physicality on all four of our forward and defense lines, it could prove to be very exhausting and take a toll on the oppositions players from constantly being outworked defensively.
Which pairing of yours do you consider to be your physical pairing?

I disagree that you have a strong amount of physicality on all of your forward lines. While guys like Mondou, Anderson, and McEachern are all willing and able to win battles for pucks, I don't see any of them as being particularly physical (Leroy Goldsworthy on our team is the same way, actually).

St. John's actually has a fairly soft Top 6. At least Springfield has Guidolin, who can match up physically with just about anyone at the AAA level.

And of course, all this depends on the ability of Bruce Boudreau to actually get favorable matchups for his team in the playoffs, a dubious assumption in my opinion.

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11-21-2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Mondou and Anderson were two-way players (actually, was Mondou's offense good enough for him to be called "two-way?") But I haven't seen any evidence that either was particularly physical.



Which pairing of yours do you consider to be your physical pairing?

I disagree that you have a strong amount of physicality on all of your forward lines. While guys like Mondou, Anderson, and McEachern are all willing and able to win battles for pucks, I don't see any of them as being particularly physical (Leroy Goldsworthy on our team is the same way, actually).

St. John's actually has a fairly soft Top 6. At least Springfield has Guidolin, who can match up physically with just about anyone at the AAA level.

And of course, all this depends on the ability of Bruce Boudreau to actually get favorable matchups for his team in the playoffs, a dubious assumption in my opinion.
Mondou was an acclaimed playmaker, which to a degree should secure his title as two-way. Him and Anderson are not overly physical players, but they will definitely be relied on to grind out the Indians forward core.

Sorry, Ed Kea and Yuri Shatalov, both were known as thunderous hitters. They'll be my shutdown pairing. Physicality wasn't really the best way to describe my forwards, hard-working gritty players is the proper way to describe them. There is apparent physicality on my bottom-six forwards in Brown and McCreary. Guidolin is arguably our toughest player to contend against with his physical ability, but we aren't worried, due to the fact we have players who are gritty and will be able to equal Guidolin with their defensive ability.

When the Ice Caps are granted last change, Boudreau will take every opportunity to get his desired matchups on the ice.

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11-21-2011, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Mondou was an acclaimed playmaker, which to a degree should secure his title as two-way. Him and Anderson are not overly physical players, but they will definitely be relied on to grind out the Indians forward core.
Okay, so neither one will be able to protect Jimmy Carson. Carson is a great talent here - I voted him one of my 10 favorite top 6 guys. But he really seems like a guy who needs to be put in a favorable situation to succeed, and I'm not sure you have done that.

Quote:
Sorry, Ed Kea and Yuri Shatalov, both were known as thunderous hitters. They'll be my shutdown pairing.
Both are solid defensive defensemen, but do you have proof as to their hitting? Shatalov got in trouble for attacking a player on another team, which is something. I don't see evidence for Kea's physicality in his profile - just that he was a big, defensive defenseman.

I think that ideally, we'd have someone more physical than Goldsworthy to protect our Swedes, but I don't think you have the defensemen to really take advantage of them. Nor do I trust the ability of Boudreau to get favorable matchups in the playoffs.

Speaking of the Kea-Shatalov pair, do they have enough puck handling abilities to transition the puck out of their own zone? I honestly don't know.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 11-21-2011 at 08:49 PM.
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11-21-2011, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Okay, so neither one will be able to protect Jimmy Carson. Carson is a great talent here - I voted him one of my 10 favorite top 6 guys. But he really seems like a guy who needs to be put in a favorable situation to succeed, and I'm not sure you have done that.



Both are solid defensive defensemen, but do you have proof as to their hitting? Shatalov got in trouble for attacking a player on another team, which is something. I don't see evidence for Kea's physicality in his profile - just that he was a big, defensive defenseman.

I think that ideally, we'd have someone more physical than Goldsworthy to protect our Swedes, but I don't think you have the defensemen to really take advantage of them. Nor do I trust the ability of Boudreau to get favorable matchups in the playoffs.

Speaking of the Kea-Shatalov pair, do they have enough puck handling abilities to transition the puck out of their own zone? I honestly don't know.
They won't "protect" Carson, but they can surely be sufficient enough defensively for him to be able to excel, I know your defensemen will be hunting for his head, but I think the defensive attribute of both wingers is enough to prove he can be effective.

From Chidlovski

Quote:
Shatalov was a steady defenseman that went from a hockey apprenticeship school with CSKA to become an essential player with Krylya Sovetov Moscow. In terms of his individual skills, Shatalov was known as a fearless shot-blocker and a fast skater with distinct talent to play impressive physical hockey. He was often assigned by the coaches to neutralize the best players of the opposing team. Shatalov was a captain of Krylya Sovetov led by coach Boris Kulagin to the national championship in 1974. He always appeared on ice in the key moments of the game.
Quote:
Yuri Shatalov was a defensive defenseman who is one of the few Soviet players during the "robotic" era who could have his style of play described as "full of heart." He was often used against the other team's top players because of his defensive play and his first-step quickness.
You'd have to think his speed will be able to get him as far as centre ice to fire off a pass to the forwards. There isn't much credible information on Shatalov, but from what I can gather on what's there. He was pretty effective at both ends of the ice. And my mishap, I was led to believe Kea was a good hitter, but there is no real proof of that, if it's any indication he had a few years with high penalty minute totals, but was also disciplined at times.

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11-24-2011, 06:55 PM
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I didn't really have the time I would have liked to discuss my teams strengths in this series, so I'll summarize the debate by saying why the Ice Caps should defeat the Springfield Indians.

- Better, more offensively proficient top-six, with two-way ability. Star offensive players (Carson, Klima) will get desired opportunities due to the defensive ability of their linemates.
- Strong bottom-six with players that come with intangibles, defensive forwards received recognition for the Selke Trophy. Will match up well with oppositions offensive lines.
- Predominantly defensive defense core, with players that are offensively capable. I believe we possess a better shutdown pairing in Kea and Shatalov than the Indians have in Cahan and Picard. Picard may have been big, but he just seems to soft to be a key factor on a shutdown pairing.
- More consistent goaltending, Forbes was frequently the best man on the ice for the Americans throughout his career, he was unfortunately on one of the worst teams of the era. Salo had a few good years, but was dismal in the post-season, even when his team put forth a good offensive effort, he wasn't up to the task.
- Strong special teams unit, high-octane first power play unit that should be prominent.
- I know you're in complete disbelief in Boudreau, but if he can get our desired matchups, than it's all smooth sailing from there.
- Overall, strong 200-foot team, that is up to the challenge the Indians have presented.

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11-24-2011, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I didn't really have the time I would have liked to discuss my teams strengths in this series, so I'll summarize the debate by saying why the Ice Caps should defeat the Springfield Indians.

- Better, more offensively proficient top-six, with two-way ability. Star offensive players (Carson, Klima) will get desired opportunities due to the defensive ability of their linemates.
I don't know how defensive ability in forwards translates into creating scoring chances for linemates.

Klima is hardly a star here, anyway. Guidolin was a better offensive player.

Quote:
- Strong bottom-six with players that come with intangibles, defensive forwards received recognition for the Selke Trophy. Will match up well with oppositions offensive lines.
Springfield's Zajac finished 6th and 7th for the Selke in back to back years and Modin finished 9th once. St. John's Curtis Brown finished 5th and 13th.

Quote:
- Predominantly defensive defense core, with players that are offensively capable. I believe we possess a better shutdown pairing in Kea and Shatalov than the Indians have in Cahan and Picard. Picard may have been big, but he just seems to soft to be a key factor on a shutdown pairing.
Soft? Picard has 1025 PIMs in 899 career games. Yeah, he isn't a traditional shutdown guy. But with the way your first line is constructed (Carson between two defensive players), all he and Cahan (his stay at home partner) have to do is rough up the soft Carson. I can't see his linemates picking up the offensive slack.

Quote:
- More consistent goaltending, Forbes was frequently the best man on the ice for the Americans throughout his career, he was unfortunately on one of the worst teams of the era. Salo had a few good years, but was dismal in the post-season, even when his team put forth a good offensive effort, he wasn't up to the task.
Jack Forbes has TWO (2) career playoff games and both of them were losses. And you think you have an advantage in playoff goaltending?

Quote:
- Strong special teams unit, high-octane first power play unit that should be prominent.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be lacking a right handed shot for your power play. That does matter, especially when we get down to this level where these defensemen aren't exactly superstars proficient at controlling the point from either side.

I don't think either team has an advantage on the PK, but Springfield definitely has the better PP.

Quote:
- I know you're in complete disbelief in Boudreau, but if he can get our desired matchups, than it's all smooth sailing from there.
That's a big IF.

Quote:
Overall, strong 200-foot team, that is up to the challenge the Indians have presented.
I like your team a lot. I think you're the only team in this draft that has a defensive corps comparable in talent to Springfield. I think lack of a RH shot will hurt you though, at least on special teams.

You also have Jimmy Carson, the best offensive player in this series. But he's also really soft, and I don't think his linemates are going to protect him from physical punishment. If you had a coach good enough to get Carson favorable matchups, I think you'd have a chance. But I don't think Boudreau is that kind of coach - certainly not when faced against Cooney Weiland, who has a long career of winning at various levels of hockey.

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11-24-2011, 11:53 PM
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Salo's Oilers in the playoffs scored:

1999: 7 goals in 4 games (1.75 per game)
2000: 11 goals in 5 games (2.20 per game)
2001: 13 goals in 6 games (2.17 per game)
2002: DNQ
2003: 11 goals in 6 games (1.83 per game)

Not exactly setting the world on fire...

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11-25-2011, 08:17 AM
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I think it's debatable at best Guidolin is better offensively then Klima. Klima was also oft-injured, which as well as sometimes laziness played a factor in why his point totals don't depict better indication of his offensive firepower, he was definitely capable.

With having defensive players on my top offensive lines, they can do what's in their power to grind out any threats to Carson or Klima, giving them the offensive freedom they are capable of.

Forbes had two playoff games while with the St. Patricks. He doesn't have much of a playoff resume because his lackluster Americans squad was lucky to make the playoffs, they were far and away the worst team on the league at that point. Besides the St. Patrick's he was never on a team that could contend for a championship.

Ric Seiling also had Selke votes in consecutive years, I can't dig up the record now because I'm on my phone.

Carson and Potvin are both right handed shooters, and are able to shift to the right side.

Mondou and Anderson are offensively sufficient, I don't know what makes you think they won't be able to generate offense.

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11-25-2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I think it's debatable at best Guidolin is better offensively then Klima. Klima was also oft-injured, which as well as sometimes laziness played a factor in why his point totals don't depict better indication of his offensive firepower, he was definitely capable.

With having defensive players on my top offensive lines, they can do what's in their power to grind out any threats to Carson or Klima, giving them the offensive freedom they are capable of.
They are defensive players, not overly physical players. I really don't see them standing up to the likes of Larry Cahan.

Quote:
Forbes had two playoff games while with the St. Patricks. He doesn't have much of a playoff resume because his lackluster Americans squad was lucky to make the playoffs, they were far and away the worst team on the league at that point. Besides the St. Patrick's he was never on a team that could contend for a championship.
Definitely a question mark though. Salo's international resume makes him much more proven in "clutch games" IMO

Quote:
Ric Seiling also had Selke votes in consecutive years, I can't dig up the record now because I'm on my phone.
13th with 4 votes, 27th with 2 votes, and received 1 vote 3 times. Meh.

Quote:
Carson and Potvin are both right handed shooters, and are able to shift to the right side.
Oh, I knew there was a reason I was considering drafting Potvin before. I don't think he's as good on the point as McCarthy, but then we don't have anyone as good up front as Carson. I'd say our first PP units are pretty close.

You don't have a RH shot on the second unit, but that's a much more minor concern. I'd expect Potvin to be out there for most of your PP.

Quote:
Mondou and Anderson are offensively sufficient, I don't know what makes you think they won't be able to generate offense.
Anderson has decent offense I guess. Mondou's profile calls him a "defensive specialist" though.

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11-25-2011, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
They are defensive players, not overly physical players. I really don't see them standing up to the likes of Larry Cahan.



Definitely a question mark though. Salo's international resume makes him much more proven in "clutch games" IMO



13th with 4 votes, 27th with 2 votes, and received 1 vote 3 times. Meh.



Oh, I knew there was a reason I was considering drafting Potvin before. I don't think he's as good on the point as McCarthy, but then we don't have anyone as good up front as Carson. I'd say our first PP units are pretty close.

You don't have a RH shot on the second unit, but that's a much more minor concern. I'd expect Potvin to be out there for most of your PP.



Anderson has decent offense I guess. Mondou's profile calls him a "defensive specialist" though.
Mondou serves as the primary playmaker on the line, something he had a knack for during his career.

Also, Potvin will see lots of power play time, especially where he is not used overly at ES and that the second unit lacks a RH shooter.

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11-27-2011, 10:26 AM
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In a six game series, your winners are:

The St. John's Ice Caps

3 stars:
Jimmy Carson
Tommy Salo
Jake Forbes

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11-27-2011, 02:22 PM
  #17
Velociraptor
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Great series TDMM, you had a very strong two-way squad. Very even matchup here, thanks for the debate.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:25 PM
  #18
TheDevilMadeMe
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I'm starting to think the key to winning at the AAA level is to draft one of the few remaining standout offensive players. Apparently it's impossible to stop those guys at this level! Heh.

Anyway, good series. I haven't always been the biggest fan of your teams raptor, but I do really like this one. Good luck in the finals.

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Old
11-27-2011, 06:13 PM
  #19
chaosrevolver
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Surprised at the result but congrats raptor. Good luck in the finals.

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Old
11-27-2011, 06:31 PM
  #20
Velociraptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Surprised at the result but congrats raptor. Good luck in the finals.
Would've liked to see what you had to say.

Thanks.

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