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Charlie Coyle

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Old
03-25-2012, 09:59 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I must say, I don't see how Wings fans thinking Sheahan is underrated makes Coyle overrated, or how it has anything to do with Coyle at all. I assume there's a different thread to discuss Sheahan?
No, its the fact that Coyle is considered a top 10 talent and Sheahan is extremely comparable to him but noone talks about him. I'm not trying to pimp Sheahan its a good comparison to show how overrated Coyle has become.

You never see threads about a guy like Brock Nelson, or Sheahan who have both done just as much as Coyle. The hype is too much for this guy

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03-25-2012, 10:32 PM
  #102
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How is Blake Wheeler not a flattering comparison? The chances of him turning out better than Blake Wheeler are probably like 15%... Wheeler is a great and extremely valuable player.

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03-26-2012, 12:12 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
No, its the fact that Coyle is considered a top 10 talent and Sheahan is extremely comparable to him but noone talks about him. I'm not trying to pimp Sheahan its a good comparison to show how overrated Coyle has become.

You never see threads about a guy like Brock Nelson, or Sheahan who have both done just as much as Coyle. The hype is too much for this guy
Honestly, I haven't seen much of Sheahan, so can't really comment on him, but I have seen a decent number of Coyle's games, and have been very impressed.

Also, the only people to call Coyle a top 10 prospect right now are the Wings fans in this thread who are complaining about how overhyped he is, I haven't seen anyone else mention that. Scoutman mentioned that looking back, he would be worth a top 10 pick in his draft year (2010), but that's not the same as calling him a top 10 prospect period, and it's not that unreasonably, he was a late 1st round pick who's been performing above expectations, I think he'd move up considerably in a hypothetical re-draft. But "top 10 in the 2010 draft" is not the same as "top 10 prospect period." Hockey's future had him ranked as the 25th best prospect in their recent prospect rankings, I don't think that's overhyped.

Also, if you're wondering why guys like Nelson and Sheahan don't get much attention on these boards, most of us watch the CHL, not the NCAA, so Coyle's move to the high profile Sea Dogs has obviously garnered him some extra attention. Also, he was involved in a high profile trade. Regardless, just because people are talking about him doesn't make him overhyped, he looks really good on the ice, and that's what it's all about.

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03-26-2012, 12:18 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Honestly, I haven't seen much of Sheahan, so can't really comment on him, but I have seen a decent number of Coyle's games, and have been very impressed.

Also, the only people to call Coyle a top 10 prospect right now are the Wings fans in this thread who are complaining about how overhyped he is, I haven't seen anyone else mention that. Scoutman mentioned that looking back, he would be worth a top 10 pick in his draft year (2010), but that's not the same as calling him a top 10 prospect period, and it's not that unreasonably, he was a late 1st round pick who's been performing above expectations, I think he'd move up considerably in a hypothetical re-draft. But "top 10 in the 2010 draft" is not the same as "top 10 prospect period." Hockey's future had him ranked as the 25th best prospect in their recent prospect rankings, I don't think that's overhyped.

Also, if you're wondering why guys like Nelson and Sheahan don't get much attention on these boards, most of us watch the CHL, not the NCAA, so Coyle's move to the high profile Sea Dogs has obviously garnered him some extra attention. Also, he was involved in a high profile trade. Regardless, just because people are talking about him doesn't make him overhyped, he looks really good on the ice, and that's what it's all about.
Thats a pretty good point, and even the guys who get to watch the NCAA dont see people putting up huge numbers so its hard to get pumped up about them. Now that Coyle is on the best team in the CHL the hype train is only going to get crazier. As for the top 10 thing, I thought I read someone say it earlier in the thread, must've misread.

I also think a big overhype was a lot of the american posters after he played well in the WJC. He had a very poor one this year so the hype kind of died off a bit

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03-26-2012, 12:41 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
How is Blake Wheeler not a flattering comparison? The chances of him turning out better than Blake Wheeler are probably like 15%... Wheeler is a great and extremely valuable player.
Wheeler is really growing into a very nice player

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03-26-2012, 12:50 AM
  #106
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I've been asking about him lately - had no clue he went to Saints John's.

Can someone tell me why he'd leave college to go play for a juniors league team

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03-26-2012, 12:53 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
I've been asking about him lately - had no clue he went to Saints John's.

Can someone tell me why he'd leave college to go play for a juniors league team
official word is he wanted to focus on hockey and not have to worry about school, wild didn't want to encourage guys leaving college mid year so he went to play with Phillips who'm he got to know this summer while at the Wild prospect camp.

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03-26-2012, 01:01 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Thats a pretty good point, and even the guys who get to watch the NCAA dont see people putting up huge numbers so its hard to get pumped up about them. Now that Coyle is on the best team in the CHL the hype train is only going to get crazier. As for the top 10 thing, I thought I read someone say it earlier in the thread, must've misread.

I also think a big overhype was a lot of the american posters after he played well in the WJC. He had a very poor one this year so the hype kind of died off a bit
Re: the "top 10" thing, it was this guy, but as I said, it was a Wings fan who was mostly just complaining about Sheahan not getting a tonne of hype:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarnkrok View Post
I just don't see it, what makes him so special? His numbers aren't that amazing, yet I see people call him a top 10 prospect all the time.
Nobody else seems to be calling him a top 10 prospect in the world.

Re: the 2011 WJCs, the whole American team didn't do great in general, so I don't see it as a big deal for Coyle. People want to write off every prospect who played on that team, which is nuts. I think people went a bit overboard with ripping on that team, of their four games the 3-2 loss to Canada was fine, they blew out Denmark, but fans were really disappointed about and the losses to the Fins and Czechs. In both those losses I thought they dominated the play and looked like the better team by far, but their finish sucked, while at the other end every good chance the Fins/Czechs had seemed to go in the back of the net. That can happen in tournaments like this, especially with kids playing. I thought there was still clearly plenty of talent on the US team.

One last point, exposure and hype are IMO not the same thing. Coyle is getting more EXPOSURE now that he's playing in the CHL, hockey fans in Canada especially are getting the chance to watch him more, but that doesn't mean he's overhyped. Calling him a guy with 1st line potential at the NHL level is not overhyping him IMO, nobody is saying he's a lock to be that good, just that he could have that upside. Watching him he's clearly a kid with a lot of talent, both in terms of physical abilities (size/strength/speed) and skill with the puck. I can see him as a 1st line talent at the NHL level if he pans out, something along the lines of a shorter but more physical Blake Wheeler, and I don't think that's overhyping him.

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03-26-2012, 01:15 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
official word is he wanted to focus on hockey and not have to worry about school, wild didn't want to encourage guys leaving college mid year so he went to play with Phillips who'm he got to know this summer while at the Wild prospect camp.
Pretty good article on it here:

http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...u-for-chl.html

When I first head he was leaving, I thought it must have been about conflicts with the coaching staff and/or the way they handled the Corey Trivino situation (apparently some players didn't like that he was kicked off the team), but it does sound like it was mostly about playing more games, and not having to deal with the "distraction" of college classes.

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03-26-2012, 01:26 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by dangsLITE View Post
He's kind of a Chris Kreider type. They have pretty different skill sets, but they both have all the tools you need to be a star. It's just a matter of seeing how they can translate it to the next level.
A reach to mention your own budding star prospect

Very different than Kreider IMO as you said.

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03-26-2012, 04:57 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Re: the "top 10" thing, it was this guy, but as I said, it was a Wings fan who was mostly just complaining about Sheahan not getting a tonne of hype:

Nobody else seems to be calling him a top 10 prospect in the world.

Re: the 2011 WJCs, the whole American team didn't do great in general, so I don't see it as a big deal for Coyle. People want to write off every prospect who played on that team, which is nuts. I think people went a bit overboard with ripping on that team, of their four games the 3-2 loss to Canada was fine, they blew out Denmark, but fans were really disappointed about and the losses to the Fins and Czechs. In both those losses I thought they dominated the play and looked like the better team by far, but their finish sucked, while at the other end every good chance the Fins/Czechs had seemed to go in the back of the net. That can happen in tournaments like this, especially with kids playing. I thought there was still clearly plenty of talent on the US team.

One last point, exposure and hype are IMO not the same thing. Coyle is getting more EXPOSURE now that he's playing in the CHL, hockey fans in Canada especially are getting the chance to watch him more, but that doesn't mean he's overhyped. Calling him a guy with 1st line potential at the NHL level is not overhyping him IMO, nobody is saying he's a lock to be that good, just that he could have that upside. Watching him he's clearly a kid with a lot of talent, both in terms of physical abilities (size/strength/speed) and skill with the puck. I can see him as a 1st line talent at the NHL level if he pans out, something along the lines of a shorter but more physical Blake Wheeler, and I don't think that's overhyping him.
I know I mentioned top 10 but only if his 2010 draft was done over again that he would probably go top 10 in that draft.

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03-26-2012, 05:16 AM
  #112
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Coyle has man strength already. Common denominator here---when Huberdeaus stock rose so much last year had the Philips kid as his centerman, now Coyle is flying and again Philips is his centerman--Kid gets overlooked a bit.
Keeping things in perspective, CB is not a strong team that they are facing. However, i should point out that in the same game that Coyle/Philips were +10 and had 9 points---the Huberdeau/Jurco line was +1 and combined for 1 assist. So the Minny guys gotta be doing something right, lol !
Long way to playoffs are over lots of real tests ahead.

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03-26-2012, 08:54 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by lacrosseguy View Post
Coyle has man strength already. Common denominator here---when Huberdeaus stock rose so much last year had the Philips kid as his centerman, now Coyle is flying and again Philips is his centerman--Kid gets overlooked a bit.
Keeping things in perspective, CB is not a strong team that they are facing. However, i should point out that in the same game that Coyle/Philips were +10 and had 9 points---the Huberdeau/Jurco line was +1 and combined for 1 assist. So the Minny guys gotta be doing something right, lol !
Long way to playoffs are over lots of real tests ahead.
I saw Coyle play with Huberdeau and Gauthier, when Jurco went home and he was equally effective.
Phillips is a talented player, but to call him a catalyst in some way doesn't fit.

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03-26-2012, 12:15 PM
  #114
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I disagree. But you are the same guy that was comfortable with Philips being rated #11 last year in the initial QMJHl rating that came out for the draft and even went so far as to suggest that it was apprpriate for Tesink to be rated ahead of him--so I guess you are not a fan of his, which is OK--but you were clearly incorrect back then. You are certaimly entitled to your opinion thou.

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03-26-2012, 12:30 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jarnkrok View Post
I'm not saying Sheahan is better, or even quite as good as him. But Sheahan probably wouldn't even crack anyone on here's top 100 list, while Coyle would probably be top 10.
No one says that. Wild fans believe he has the potential to be a very solid top six forward, not a potential star player. I find him a more offensively talented Kyle Brodziak.

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03-26-2012, 12:48 PM
  #116
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Ive seen Charlie play several times and watched Brodziak 3 times and you are exactly correct in your assesment of Charlie--will play in the league and be a very good player kind of a 2.5 line type guy. On a real good NHL team a 3rd line guy who can step up and play 2nd line minutes and not look out of place at all, perhaps by the time he reaches 25 be a solid every day second line guy.
Bottom line time will tell, once thing for certain he is a very good prospect and the Wild are fortunate to have him !

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03-26-2012, 03:41 PM
  #117
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I disagree. But you are the same guy that was comfortable with Philips being rated #11 last year in the initial QMJHl rating that came out for the draft and even went so far as to suggest that it was apprpriate for Tesink to be rated ahead of him--so I guess you are not a fan of his, which is OK--but you were clearly incorrect back then. You are certaimly entitled to your opinion thou.
I think it's safe to say that my opinion has changed from the initial CSB list in the fall of 2010. In fact, I think it's ridiculous to think that it hasn't. I can't find the thread where I said what you're claiming, but I'll take your word on it. That initial ranking was an interesting one and I had heard opinions that coincided with a lot of the "surprises". There were definitely concerns about Phillips entering into his draft year that I knew of and they clearly had an effect my opinion, but we're also talking about a guy who more than doubled his previous season's output in his draft year. I think it is safe to say that over the course of the season, he answered a lot of those questions and he continues to answer those questions to this day.

For record, here's a thread where I discuss my thoughts on him at the mid-season of last year for anyone interested: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=866453

Reading back, I agree with what I posted but I can understand how it might have been misinterpreted.

I like Phillips' game, my input has a lot to do with his current ranking and rating on HF.com (7.0C, which basically means I feel he has second-line potential but it isn't a sure thing). I do think he'll be a scoring forward at the NHL level, but I also need to acknowledge that he still has some things to work on.

I stand by my statements that I feel he complements other players on the Sea Dogs quite well and that makes the entire team more dangerous. I think the mere fact that Saint John is able to put so many weapons on the ice for a powerplay or a shift is advantageous to all those players.

It is true that I don't feel he's the most talented player on the team, but that's more a statement on Saint John, rather than a slight against Phillips. I feel like you're trying to phrase it like I have a hate on for Zack Phillips, but that is simply not the case. I think he's a good player, the same way I think Huberdeau, Coyle and Jurco are good players. I think Coyle plays well when he plays with Phillips, but I also think Coyle plays well when he plays with Gauthier and Huberdeau. That's all I'm trying to say.

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03-26-2012, 03:45 PM
  #118
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Just got an email that there's been an official scoring change on Coyles 6-point night on Friday. It's now a 5-point night.

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03-26-2012, 04:10 PM
  #119
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Just got an email that there's been an official scoring change on Coyles 6-point night on Friday. It's now a 5-point night.
Bust.

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03-26-2012, 05:00 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by lacrosseguy View Post
Coyle has man strength already. Common denominator here---when Huberdeaus stock rose so much last year had the Philips kid as his centerman, now Coyle is flying and again Philips is his centerman--Kid gets overlooked a bit.
Keeping things in perspective, CB is not a strong team that they are facing. However, i should point out that in the same game that Coyle/Philips were +10 and had 9 points---the Huberdeau/Jurco line was +1 and combined for 1 assist. So the Minny guys gotta be doing something right, lol !
Long way to playoffs are over lots of real tests ahead.
I have to say i like Huberdeau and I like Coyle....Phillips IMO is overrated, skating is a bit slow, good playmaker and passer but not explosive the least in the offensive zone...I find he lags a bit...imo he is overrated and myself i think he has trouble making the nhl.

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03-26-2012, 05:09 PM
  #121
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I don't disagree that he might have a hard time cracking it in the NHL (esp. as a centre), but I don't think his game relies on skating so much. His passing allows him to keep up with a high tempo game. His stickhandling is good too, though I bet he gets decapitated trying some of the stuff he does in the NHL

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03-26-2012, 05:44 PM
  #122
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I have to say i like Huberdeau and I like Coyle....Phillips IMO is overrated, skating is a bit slow, good playmaker and passer but not explosive the least in the offensive zone...I find he lags a bit...imo he is overrated and myself i think he has trouble making the nhl.
I have come away very impressed with Zach Phillips, and I think some of you guys are missing the boat with him. Granted you guys have seen him more then I have, but the kid does not seem to have any skating issues with me and always seems to be doing the right things in the right spots. I like him a lot as a prospect.

as for Coyle, I just dont see how anyone cannot like that kid...he has all the tools a top line player could want, and he has displayed it in spades his entire time in the Q.

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03-26-2012, 08:47 PM
  #123
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Pretty excited about Coyle, but I see him as a 2/3 tweener or maybe a net presence on a first line with an exceptional linemate or two. He and Zucker played real well together in Wild camp, but were outshone by Granlund and Phillips. I really have no worries about Phillips making the jump. He isn't a guy who is going to be effective all by himself, but I can see him having an Andrew Brunette kind of career.

Anyone care to compare Coyle with Latendresse?

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03-27-2012, 05:22 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
Pretty excited about Coyle, but I see him as a 2/3 tweener or maybe a net presence on a first line with an exceptional linemate or two. He and Zucker played real well together in Wild camp, but were outshone by Granlund and Phillips. I really have no worries about Phillips making the jump. He isn't a guy who is going to be effective all by himself, but I can see him having an Andrew Brunette kind of career.

Anyone care to compare Coyle with Latendresse?
if his upside was like Brodziak or a 2/3 tweener, I'd say that would be pretty disappointing considering he's been a top 20-25 guy (ranking wise - as random as it seems sometimes) on HF plus very highly thought of in THN (again..) and I'm sure other places. Was sad he left BU but I can't wait to see what he can do in the AHL

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03-27-2012, 06:30 PM
  #125
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Here's a nice video of Coyle and Phillips: Video

Coyle looks dominant.

Thanks to DC2600 for finding this!

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