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TEAM990: McKenzie say most likely no suspension for Malone (official: no suspension)

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10-03-2011, 07:37 AM
  #1
TheDamned
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TEAM990: McKenzie say most likely no suspension for Malone (official: no suspension)

McKenzie heard there's good chances Malone won't get any suspension because of the "prior to" clause in article #48 of the rulebook.
Campoli changed his body position prior to the hit, exposing his head.

Official per Kyper:

Quote:
RealKyper Nick Kypreos
No further #NHL supplemental discipline for #Lightning Ryan Malone for head hit on #Canadiens Chris Campoli. He left game and didn't return.

Quote:
renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens Campoli (member of the NHL competition committee) disappointed that Ryan Malone is not suspended. Don't understand the decision


Last edited by TheDamned: 10-03-2011 at 10:46 AM.
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10-03-2011, 07:45 AM
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Quite surprising if true, and since it is Bob I believe it to be true.

I think Campoli had changed his body position prior to, prior to, the check. But thst is just MHO.

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10-03-2011, 07:45 AM
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What I dont get with the 'just prior to', is that just prior to that Campoli was being hooked from behind, possibly causing him to lose balance and lean forward. Shouldn't this mitigate the 'just prior to' action? This league is a joke.

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10-03-2011, 07:52 AM
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campoli did reach for the puck, however malone had plenty of time to go for the puck/react, hopefully he gets something, i won't wet my pants if he doesn't

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10-03-2011, 07:52 AM
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I do agree Campoli changed his position prior to the hit but not enough to change the fact that Malone was going to hit the head anyways, did target and did hit the head. It wasn't enough of a change to make Malone go from say a shoulder to head. He was already going to hit the head he just hit it even worse due to Campoli changing position slightly. Imo it was clearly targeting of the head. Malone could have avoided hitting Campoli with full force either way.

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Originally Posted by Hamiltonhabfan10 View Post
campoli did reach for the puck, however malone had plenty of time to go for the puck/react, hopefully he gets something, i won't wet my pants if he doesn't
Pretty much this. I won't be angry Malone isn't suspended I'm just glad Campoli is okay. But I do find it kind of stupid of the NHL commissioner if he isn't going to be consistent. In my eyes it was a gray enough area to merit 1-2 games. Since Campoli is apparently okay I'm not really overly concerned about it though. Just think consistency could become an issue if every time some guy leans to stride or reach a puck and gets his there's no penalty. Head hunters could potentially just wait for that. If the person is clearly targeting the head regardless of this stride and/or reach (you can tell by looking) then I don't see what relevance it has. Same with if you can see clear as day the person made no effort to avoid the hit.


Last edited by neofury*: 10-03-2011 at 07:58 AM.
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10-03-2011, 07:55 AM
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I called it during the game. It always seems like a double standard wen it comes to the Habs. I remember Plekanec getting 2 games for a stupid call in Edmonton. Dajenais getting the hock for a high stick and Kostopolous getting extra games. I could go on

GO HABS GO

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10-03-2011, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamiltonhabfan10 View Post
campoli did reach for the puck, however malone had plenty of time to go for the puck/react, hopefully he gets something, i won't wet my pants if he doesn't
Same thing. I watched a re-watched the replay, and Campoli is already reaching prior to the hit. He did change slightly the position of his head at the very last moment, but it was to dodge Malone's hit, and had he not do that, it would have been much worst.

But Shanahan has access to camera angle we may not have, so I trust his analysis.

We shall know the verdict later today or tomorrow.

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10-03-2011, 08:09 AM
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Campoli was reaching for the puck the entire time, he didn't just duck at the last minute.

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10-03-2011, 08:17 AM
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The timing of "Just prior to" can be highly subjective.



They won't get rid of headshots if they let that one go. It's ridiculous.

Best examplified by this :

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Just think consistency could become an issue if every time some guy leans to stride or reach a puck and gets his there's no penalty. Head hunters could potentially just wait for that. If the person is clearly targeting the head regardless of this stride and/or reach (you can tell by looking) then I don't see what relevance it has. Same with if you can see clear as day the person made no effort to avoid the hit.
And yes, Malone didn't mind what he was doing and didn't try to avoid Campoli, he went straight for him, frontaly, while the guy was leaning forward. What the hell was Malone thinking? That Campoli's head would just go out of his way so he could hit his body?


Last edited by Ozymandias: 10-03-2011 at 08:24 AM.
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10-03-2011, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Campoli was reaching for the puck the entire time, he didn't just duck at the last minute.
I thought so too at first glance, but I rewatched the video several times and Campoli lunges at the last second. I thought it was still suspension worthy of a couple games, but I wouldn't be outraged either way.

What I find disappointing here more than actual hit was all the other factors:

1: Malone running around recklessly all night
2: Game was basically over
3: The Score
4: Campoli never had possession of the puck anymore, imo the hit was illegal because of that more so than anything else.

With regards to point 4, that isn't defined in the new rule as being worthy of suspension, so this will boil down to whether or not Campoli changed his position in a manner that didn't give Malone adequate time to lay up. It's 50-50 here and when it's this close to call I think you have to protect the player being hit. An argument can bee made either way, so in this instance I think a 2-3 gamer was warranted and will be the first ball drop by shanny imo.

Edit: I would also like to add that Campoli was already in a vulnerable position in my eyes before the last second lunge, negating the importance of it altogether, he had back side pressure from the fore checker who lifted his stick and knocked the puck lose, he was vulnerable for 2 or 3 seconds prior to the last second lunge giving Malone enough time to let up.


Last edited by habsjunkie2*: 10-03-2011 at 08:26 AM.
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10-03-2011, 08:24 AM
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For those who don't understand the rule book, the "just prior to" clause was inserted so the league can decide to not suspend someone when the guy who delivered the hit is a known name. So some nobody named Smith on Detroit thorws a hit, give him 8 games. Some guy on Tampa thorws an elbow to Campoli's head, probably about 5 games.

But wait! Just prior to the hit, everyone has already heard of Malone, so no suspension.

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10-03-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
For those who don't understand the rule book, the "just prior to" clause was inserted so the league can decide to not suspend someone when the guy who delivered the hit is a known name. So some nobody named Smith on Detroit thorws a hit, give him 8 games. Some guy on Tampa thorws an elbow to Campoli's head, probably about 5 games.

But wait! Just prior to the hit, everyone has already heard of Malone, so no suspension.
I don't agree with this at all, the league fears being too firm will result in a less physical game. I think they're wrong in this particular play, but it has nothing to do with protecting Ryan Malone from the law that others are forced to follow.

It's not an easy job.

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10-03-2011, 08:30 AM
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Strong hockey play?

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10-03-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Pretty much this. I won't be angry Malone isn't suspended I'm just glad Campoli is okay. But I do find it kind of stupid of the NHL commissioner if he isn't going to be consistent. In my eyes it was a gray enough area to merit 1-2 games. Since Campoli is apparently okay I'm not really overly concerned about it though.
There is a reason why Colin Campbell handled the homophobic slur comment. It was a gray area and they didn't want Shanahan making a controversial call early on.

I don't really care if Malone isn't suspended but giving him 1 game might send a message that you still have to be responsbility to a degree. I don't really blame Malone at all, he was just doing what he's been doing his entire life.

Just glad, Campoli appears ok.

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10-03-2011, 08:35 AM
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I wish in situations like this, the league would look at mitigating circumstances (like for example, the Chara/Pacioretty incident).

Malone was looking to hurt someone all game...I couldn't care less if Campoli 'put himself in a dangerous position', Malone saw a player that was defenseless and he targeted his head.

But it doesn't really matter to me, the problem has never been the length of suspensions as many claim it is...the problem is players don't respect each other and until that changes, it doesn't matter how many videos Shanny makes, players are going to continue to target the head.

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10-03-2011, 08:37 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised, the league does tend to give us the **** end of the stick when it comes to stuff of this nature. Malone will get what's coming to him in due time. I just hope Campoli is ready to go by Thursday

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10-03-2011, 08:38 AM
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Can someone tell me:

Why do we keep getting ****ed? Repeatedly?


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10-03-2011, 08:38 AM
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It seems silly to me to start putting in exemptions due to players actually moving on the ice. Isn't that what they are supposed to do? Is Bob MacKenzie telling me that there was nothing Malone could do to avoid making contact with Campoli's head?

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10-03-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I thought so too at first glance, but I rewatched the video several times and Campoli lunges at the last second. I thought it was still suspension worthy of a couple games, but I wouldn't be outraged either way.

What I find disappointing here more than actual hit was all the other factors:

1: Malone running around recklessly all night
2: Game was basically over
3: The Score
4: Campoli never had possession of the puck anymore, imo the hit was illegal because of that more so than anything else.

With regards to point 4, that isn't defined in the new rule as being worthy of suspension, so this will boil down to whether or not Campoli changed his position in a manner that didn't give Malone adequate time to lay up. It's 50-50 here and when it's this close to call I think you have to protect the player being hit. An argument can bee made either way, so in this instance I think a 2-3 gamer was warranted and will be the first ball drop by shanny imo.

Edit: I would also like to add that Campoli was already in a vulnerable position in my eyes before the last second lunge, negating the importance of it altogether, he had back side pressure from the fore checker who lifted his stick and knocked the puck lose, he was vulnerable for 2 or 3 seconds prior to the last second lunge giving Malone enough time to let up.
This is a far better analysis than any "just prior" comments. To me, falling back on that is just semantics and illustrates the problem with having a former player in charge of discipline. They may understand the game but fall short in the application of the rules.

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10-03-2011, 08:39 AM
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I can't stand this league. Nobody ever gets suspended for plays against the Habs. I mean, this pre-season, everything, EVERYTHING has been reviewed and suspended. Now it's against a Habs player, and they come up with this leaning forward crap!?

This league just pisses me off more and more everytime. Blatant head shot, worse than some that have been awarded suspensions by Mr. Shanahan.

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10-03-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I wish in situations like this, the league would look at mitigating circumstances (like for example, the Chara/Pacioretty incident).

Malone was looking to hurt someone all game...I couldn't care less if Campoli 'put himself in a dangerous position', Malone saw a player that was defenseless and he targeted his head.

But it doesn't really matter to me, the problem has never been the length of suspensions as many claim it is...the problem is players don't respect each other and until that changes, it doesn't matter how many videos Shanny makes, players are going to continue to target the head.
While I agree with most of your post I think the conclusion is a bit off. I do think it will deter a lot of folks from doing head shots. I'm not going to sit here and say it will eliminate them but I do believe it will have an effect. I do agree though, respect is a big issue but problem is how do you force guys to be respectful.

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10-03-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
While I agree with most of your post I think the conclusion is a bit off. I do think it will deter a lot of folks from doing head shots. I'm not going to sit here and say it will eliminate them but I do believe it will have an effect. I do agree though, respect is a big issue but problem is how do you force guys to be respectful.
You force them to be respectful by handing down severe suspensions. Whether it be Ryan Malone, Matt Cooke or Steven Stamkos.

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10-03-2011, 08:43 AM
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Regardless of this prior to ********...Malone made no attempt to slow down or lessen the hit, in fact he took the opportunity of vulnerability to deliver a head shot, that alone is worthy of a suspension(2 games?) It was reckless, period.

But wtv, as long as Campoli is fine that's what counts.

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10-03-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
But it doesn't really matter to me, the problem has never been the length of suspensions as many claim it is...the problem is players don't respect each other and until that changes, it doesn't matter how many videos Shanny makes, players are going to continue to target the head.
I don't think the players have ever respected each other and I don't think they need to. One strategy has always been to wear the other team down by constantly hitting them, that isn't respectful, that is disrespectful.

You do what it takes to win imo.

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10-03-2011, 08:44 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
While I agree with most of your post I think the conclusion is a bit off. I do think it will deter a lot of folks from doing head shots. I'm not going to sit here and say it will eliminate them but I do believe it will have an effect. I do agree though, respect is a big issue but problem is how do you force guys to be respectful.
Well the onus on is the players IMO...not the league. The league can't start suspendiing guys for 15-20 games everytime someone gets hit in the head. They just can't.

Players are too big, too fast and the ice surface is still the same (which to me, is a big issue). We're also in an era where EVERYTHING is reviewed and replayed over and over again, so while it's great that Shanny is handing out stiff suspensions, he's going to get to a point where it's just not going to be enough.

the NHLPA should have a sit down meeting with all of their brethren to figure something out...cause again, I don't think stiff suspensions is the answer, evidently, it is not as the preseason has seen an unprecedented spike in 'illegal hits'

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