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Old
10-04-2011, 01:34 PM
  #51
Holdurbreathe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelnats Puc View Post
OK, since you seem to be attacking arguments I've never made, you probably don't actually need me in this discussion.

I'm just going to leave this here for you, you can continue your argument with this guy:

Excuse but you did say skating was his major weakness, you also said he couldn't keep up in the one preseason game he played.

You didn't say he couldn't skate, but you sure implied it.

Thanks, probably get more intelligent responses from this guy.

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Old
10-04-2011, 01:36 PM
  #52
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Schaefer averaged 40 points when he played with the Sens. That's pretty good.

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Old
10-04-2011, 01:38 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by El Diego View Post
Schaefer averaged 40 points when he played with the Sens. That's pretty good.
Not bad for a thirs liner, and if he had of capitalized on many of his chances the number would have been higher.

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10-04-2011, 01:42 PM
  #54
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It's true Stone's looking good, but don't forget that the list of 100 point junior players who never stick in the NHL is long.

From 10 years ago. Sometimes what works in junior doesn't translate to the NHL. Stone's looked like he has great vision, so there's nothing wrong with being cautiously optimistic about the guy, but it's important not to forget the cautious part.

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Old
10-04-2011, 01:48 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xking23 View Post
Why do you act like you know so much more than everybody else? If you can tell a players future after at most 6 games, then why aren't you a scout? Just because people see Stone as being able to be a top 6 powerforward does not make them wrong, it means they see something that you don't. He will play in the NHL, if it's as a player similar to Neil or a player more offensive like Nash (not that caliber) but to assume he has reached the best he can be is once again a very naive thought process.
You started off good, but then you wrote this.

I never said this. Or anything close to it.

Stone could be a fantastic NHL player, I won't deny this.

This is the post that started this discussion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
Not at all.

It's just important to temper expectations. Like Fuhr mentionned Peter Schaefer had a ton of points in the WHL and other than being excellent along the boards he didn't amount to much. Way too many posters cream their pants when they see Stone's point totals.
I don't find the Schaefer comparison overly relevant, as every player is unique. However, my point, and the point of Canadian Guy, is that just because Stone's putting up points in the WHL, and lots of them, doesn't mean he's going to make the NHL for sure. Stone's skating needs work before he can be a truly effective player in the NHL. I never said he couldn't put in the work, or that his skating needed too much work that it would be inconceivable he could do it. Stone has all the potential in the world, but time and time again we've seen players put up huge points in the CHL and never achieve any similar success in the NHL. Points from the CHL don't transfer to the NHL at the same rate for every player.

Is it really that bad to say Stone is still a prospect? And like all prospects he's not a guarantee? I sure hope not.

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Old
10-04-2011, 02:40 PM
  #56
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Would you guys rather have a guy not putting up points in junior? What more can Stone do to impress people? If you did a re-draft of '10 he's at least in the 2nd round.

Serious question, would you guys rather have a player "look complete" in junior but put up 25 points when he's expected to get 80+, or put up 80+ and have a hole in his game?

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Old
10-04-2011, 02:44 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topside View Post
Would you guys rather have a guy not putting up points in junior? What more can Stone do to impress people? If you did a re-draft of '10 he's at least in the 2nd round.

Serious question, would you guys rather have a player "look complete" in junior but put up 25 points when he's expected to get 80+, or put up 80+ and have a hole in his game?
Yes, I would love to see a player never score in juniors. Ever. Only when a player successfully goes through a season scoring no points whatsoever will I consider for a second that they might be pretty damn good.

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Old
10-04-2011, 02:46 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Yelnats Puc View Post
Yes, I would love to see a player never score in juniors. Ever. Only when a player successfully goes through a season scoring no points whatsoever will I consider for a second that they might be pretty damn good.
Probably has skating issues though

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Old
10-04-2011, 02:51 PM
  #59
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Just like children, it's either all or none....

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Old
10-04-2011, 03:34 PM
  #60
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Check out some early clips of Bobby Ryan's skating, tell em it doesn't look similar. If Stone turns out to be a poor mans Bobby Ryan i think we've done pretty good with our 6TH ROUNDER.

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:01 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelnats Puc View Post
Yes, I would love to see a player never score in juniors. Ever. Only when a player successfully goes through a season scoring no points whatsoever will I consider for a second that they might be pretty damn good.
So what's more important to you, stats or "how he looks"? Because Lucic didn't put up numbers in junior but he physically had/has all the tools.

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:10 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topside View Post
So what's more important to you, stats or "how he looks"?
It's a little more complicated than black and white. They're both important, but it's impossible to assign a specific weight to either of them as it'll be different for every player. You can't just look at stats in a vacuum, for any player.

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:15 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelnats Puc View Post
It's a little more complicated than black and white. They're both important, but it's impossible to assign a specific weight to either of them as it'll be different for every player. You can't just look at stats in a vacuum, for any player.
Ok, point taken.

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:31 PM
  #64
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Erik Fehr with better playmaking, at best.

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10-04-2011, 11:46 PM
  #65
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Hmmm, watch Milan Lucic skate... not that great.

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:19 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutz View Post
It's true Stone's looking good, but don't forget that the list of 100 point junior players who never stick in the NHL is long.

From 10 years ago. Sometimes what works in junior doesn't translate to the NHL. Stone's looked like he has great vision, so there's nothing wrong with being cautiously optimistic about the guy, but it's important not to forget the cautious part.
I did a post on this where I took all of the 100+ point players from the WHL over the last 10 years and saw how they turned out.


It worked out to about a 50-50 odds of a guy cracking the league, I think. Some good players in their and some so-so guys too.

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Old
10-05-2011, 08:44 AM
  #67
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Stone has compete written all over him. That pre-season goal was a laser that came from good vision and good decision making.. He will play on either the 3rd or 2nd line in two years - depending on his centreman.

In two years I see a forward group with
Greening Spezza Filatov
Silfverberg Zibanejad Stone
Hoffman - Smith Condra
Prince - DaCosta Petersson
2012 1st Round will fit here somewhere


Filatov, if he does not quite work out, could be packaged for an elite RW or our 2012 1st evolves to fill this spot (Forsberg)

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Old
10-05-2011, 08:58 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba Troopa View Post
I did a post on this where I took all of the 100+ point players from the WHL over the last 10 years and saw how they turned out.


It worked out to about a 50-50 odds of a guy cracking the league, I think. Some good players in their and some so-so guys too.
What I find interesting, is that the top scorers seem to have changed in terms of quality over the last 10 years.

If you look at recent top 10 scorers, about half have name recognition. Back 10 or so years ago, the list is full of who?

(One guy named Big Snake was a top 10 PM guy about 10 years ago :p)

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Old
10-05-2011, 10:08 AM
  #69
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Here is something that I noticed about Stone.

At some point last year, he clicked, and I mean clicked big time.

In early-mid January his totals were a soilid but unspectacular

46gp 22G 31A for 53 points

He finished the season at :
71gp 37G 69A for 106 pts

Which means that his last 25 games went like this..

25 gp 15G 38A for 53 points

Yeah, that is over 2ppg. What is interesting is that while the Goals did increase, it was his assists that simply exploded.

IMO, it should not be unexpected that he could put up a 2.0 ppg or even better in the WHL this year. What will be interesting is how his goal scoring vs assists develops.

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Old
10-05-2011, 04:43 PM
  #70
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What I like about Stone is his size & that he has some toughness with his game & he can play on any line like Greening. They could start him on the 4th line & let him work his way up as Greening has done. Add Grant at centre & that would be a formidable line. We will have three big, tough scoring power forwards in a few yrs, not bad.

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Old
10-05-2011, 05:28 PM
  #71
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Found my old posts on Mark Stone, comparing him to other WHL players. (He's top 10 in the past decade, which is pretty sweet)!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba Troopa View Post
FYI - Mark stone's 106 point season is the 9th highest scoring total in the regular season over the past decade. (Tied with RNH and Jordan Eberle)


To gauge where Stone may end up, here are the players that have put up 100 plus points in the last decade. I'm not as impressed by this list as I would have thought. A few decent NHLers, but far from a sure thing for these guys to crack the league.


Linden Vey (116 points)
4th round pick
6.5C by HF

Tyler Johnson (115 points)
Undrafted, just signed an ELC with Tampa)


Mark Stone (106 points)
6th round pick
6.5C by HF

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (106 points)
Predicted 1st overall


Brandon Kozun (107 points)
6th Round pick
Put up 48 points in AHL this season
7.0C by HF

Jordan Eberle (106 points)
Edmonton Oiler/WJHC star


Jordan Weal (102 points)
3rd round pick
6.5C by HF
1 pt in 7 games in AHL this season


Casey Pierro-Zabotel (115 points)
3rd round pick
Playing in ECHL

Brandon Kozun (108 points)
see above

Brett Sonne (100 points)
3rd Round Pick
Below average numbers in AHL



Mark Santorelli (101 points)
4th round pick
A little over 20 points in AHL last season


Colin Long (100 points)
4th round pick
ECHL

Troy Brouwer (102 points)
7th round pick
Chicago Blackhawks (36 points last year)


Eric Fehr
18th overall
NHL


Tyler Redenbach
Round 3
SM-Liiga


Jeremy Williams
Round 7
Borderline NHLer


Erik Christensen
Round 3
NHL



Jesse Schultz
Career Minor Leaguer


Jeremy Jackson
Stopped playing after junior


Nathan Barrett
ECHL


Joffrey Lupul
NHL

Eric Johansson
8th round
Playing in Europe



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba Troopa View Post
I haven't seen enough of Stone's play, so I'll fall back on statistics to gauge his potential.


Of the 21 guys who have cracked 100 points in the WHL since 2001....
  • 8 are, were or will be NHLers (RNH, Williams, Brouwer, Fehr, Christensen, Eberle, Tyler Johnson (ELC), and Lupul)
  • 7 will likely never play in the NHL at this point in their careers
  • The remaining 6 are "yet to be determined" (likely a few will play in the NHL).

Based on this, I'd say Stone's got about a 50-50 chance of cracking the NHL.


Can you tell I like statistics?

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:33 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba Troopa View Post
I did a post on this where I took all of the 100+ point players from the WHL over the last 10 years and saw how they turned out.


It worked out to about a 50-50 odds of a guy cracking the league, I think. Some good players in their and some so-so guys too.
Wait...in their what? You can't cut off an idea mid sentence.

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Old
10-05-2011, 08:03 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Wait...in their what? You can't cut off an idea mid sentence.
Grammar comedy gold.

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Old
10-05-2011, 08:19 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba Troopa View Post
I did a post on this where I took all of the 100+ point players from the WHL over the last 10 years and saw how they turned out.


It worked out to about a 50-50 odds of a guy cracking the league, I think. Some good players in their and some so-so guys too.
The interesting thing there would be the ages of the players when they had their 100 point seasons. I'm assuming Eberle was young, and obviously RNH was in his draft year. Wonder how many where Stone fits in age wise.

So I looked them up and most of them did it when they were older than Stone. Also a lot of them are smaller guys, so that has something to do with it as well. Stone's interesting cause he was younger than most when he did it, and he's bigger than most. FYI he was younger than Eberle too.


Last edited by Jackie Treehorn: 10-05-2011 at 08:31 PM.
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Old
10-05-2011, 08:53 PM
  #75
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Stone should dominate at the world juniors along side Huberdeau. If he continues to dominate he will be a top 6 forward in Ottawa in no time. Love his goal in overtime against the Leafs.

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