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Canucks waive F Victor Oreskovich(UPD: Clears), claim F Dale Weise from NYR

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10-04-2011, 05:55 PM
  #176
MS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
That's the way I see it too. Boston's fourth liners outplayed ours by a good margin. Gillis gave a lot of fourth liners auditions this year and none really stood out as having a combination of grit and at least some skill that we need. Oreskovich may eventually develop into that type of player but we can't afford to take that gamble again.
Agreed.

We gave a bunch of guys a chance and none of them were very good.

Iím not ready to throw in the towel on Oreskovich (hopefully he can go to the AHL, improve offensively, and again compete for a job here in the future), but right now heís simply a below-average NHL 4th line player. He stinks offensively (bottom-6 skills even by AHL standards), isnít good defensively and canít PK, and isnít consistently physical although he has some ability on that front. Doesnít fight. Our 4th line stunk in the playoffs last year and he was a big part of the problem.

If Weise can come in, play with a bit of attitude and finish his checks, and score 5-10 goals at the same time, this is a significant upgrade. Heís certainly shown a lot more offensive ability in the AHL than Oreskovich has. Donít really care if he loses his fights as long as heís sticking his nose in and showing up.

Risk is if Weise turns out to be another Desbiens who has the skills and grit at the AHL level but canít keep up at this level. But at least management is trying to upgrade instead of leaving the same scrubs in there to keep their jobs by default.

Would probably have kept Oreskovich ahead of Volpatti Ė who is an even worse player Ė but really, neither belongs in the NHL right now.

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10-04-2011, 06:00 PM
  #177
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I almost feel like people's expectations for 4th line players are unfairly high. If the Canucks even had a second line during the finals, no one would've noticed the 4th line and it wouldn't have been viewed as an issue. We didn't lose the Cup because we had a bad 4th line.

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10-04-2011, 06:02 PM
  #178
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damn, Oreo

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10-04-2011, 06:09 PM
  #179
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About time. Sick of the overhyping of Oresko.


Also one of the dumbest nicknames in history (Oreo)

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10-04-2011, 06:11 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
Its a good thing we brought in this chump to fight them.. lets look at the Ranger fans reactions to him getting claimed shall we

And that was just a small sample of the player were getting... you can check the rest on the rangers board

we got a good player!!
Clearly they know more than management

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10-04-2011, 06:12 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythescot View Post
Never heard of him, but I've liked the experiments in this area by Gillis in the past, but I may be in the minority there.
This is my feeling too. Most of these moves lately has proven to be undramatic but constructive ones. I expect this to be a similar acquisition.


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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Honestly, people are making oreo sound like hes crosby in this thread.
we replaced a fringe fourth liner, with another fringe fourth liner.
Yes, but isn't it a bit exciting when this kind of stuff happens, unexpected and one hope/think/believe that there is a plan?


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Originally Posted by metric View Post
Clearly a list of greatest players to ever wear the Vancouver Canucks jersey.
Irbe, Weise should get a pair of pads.

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10-04-2011, 06:22 PM
  #182
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I' hoping for him to be like the good version of cowan that we saw for a few months; momentum swinging shifts, solid hits and the occasional hot streak

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10-04-2011, 06:25 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
nah, that's Ron Delorme's (amateur scout) shtick....course, it's not like our pro scouts haven't recommended a player that didn't work out (eg., Ryan Johnson).
No one could have predicted that wearing a Canucks jersey would cause his faceoff % to drop 10+ points...

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10-04-2011, 06:32 PM
  #184
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I really like this pick-up. Weise is young and has good stats backing him up. It looks like he got squeezed out of NYR when some might have expected him to make that team.

The only thing I want to know is can he PK? He's already an upgrade on Oreo/Volpatti, but if he can PK, all the better.

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10-04-2011, 06:33 PM
  #185
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The thing that puzzles me about these rumblings that the Canucks have made prior attempts to acquire Weise, is...why did Sather throw him on waivers to give to the Canucks as a freebie. Obviously they didn't want to move him before, and they had to know that Canucks had serious interest in the guy...and now they don't care, give him away for free? Did they even try to extort anything out of Gillis?

Kinda strange. But hey, it's Sather so...i guess that comes with the territory.

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10-04-2011, 06:42 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
The thing that puzzles me about these rumblings that the Canucks have made prior attempts to acquire Weise, is...why did Sather throw him on waivers to give to the Canucks as a freebie. Obviously they didn't want to move him before, and they had to know that Canucks had serious interest in the guy...and now they don't care, give him away for free? Did they even try to extort anything out of Gillis?

Kinda strange. But hey, it's Sather so...i guess that comes with the territory.
Quite possible the asking price was too high and in the end, he was left with no choice but to waive him. Happened before

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10-04-2011, 06:46 PM
  #187
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clain avery, bring up duco.

duco lappy avery for the most hated line in the nhl lmfao.

would be funny to see

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10-04-2011, 06:48 PM
  #188
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I don't have a problem with it, just seems like a weird pickup to me, doesn't seem to be much, if any of an upgrade, but I'll be interested to see him play & see what he can do.

Interestingly enough, it says in the Vancouver Sun that the 'Nucks tried to get him before.

http://www.vancouversun.com/Canucks+...276/story.html

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10-04-2011, 06:49 PM
  #189
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It'll be interesting to see what happens to the 4th line once Kesler and Raymond come back.

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10-04-2011, 06:55 PM
  #190
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I have a question...how come some teams apparently bleed off these sorts of bottom six players like, all the time, and we can't even find a couple of them to fill consistent roles on our fourth line? But then again, I guess someone took a shot at Desbiens and Glass this year, so someone's taking our cast-off crap too.

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10-04-2011, 06:57 PM
  #191
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Damn. We waived the modern day version of Tim Horton?

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10-04-2011, 07:05 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
I have a question...how come some teams apparently bleed off these sorts of bottom six players like, all the time, and we can't even find a couple of them to fill consistent roles on our fourth line? But then again, I guess someone took a shot at Desbiens and Glass this year, so someone's taking our cast-off crap too.
I think you hit the nail on the head, it's just shuffle and pray mostly.

And finding these guys isn't that hard, there are usually bucket loads on waivers or UFAs in the offseason. I'd rather we draft for guys with upside first and find these in trades/ufa/waivers.

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10-04-2011, 07:06 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
I have a question...how come some teams apparently bleed off these sorts of bottom six players like, all the time, and we can't even find a couple of them to fill consistent roles on our fourth line? But then again, I guess someone took a shot at Desbiens and Glass this year, so someone's taking our cast-off crap too.
Thankfully Ryan Johnson was playing for the Blackhawks last year in the playoffs too.

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10-04-2011, 07:07 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
I almost feel like people's expectations for 4th line players are unfairly high. If the Canucks even had a second line during the finals, no one would've noticed the 4th line and it wouldn't have been viewed as an issue. We didn't lose the Cup because we had a bad 4th line.
No-one is saying it was the only issue, but it was definitely a problem.

0 goals scored in 25 playoff games. 8 goals against. No physical presence. No speed. No shutdown ability. No anything.

Just a total waste of 8 minutes in every game where the hope was that they wouldnít concede a goal. And itís been that way for a few years.

I donít think expectations are terribly high. I want a 4th line that can saw off minutes with opposing 4th lines, provide some consistent physical play, and has players who can score 5-10 goals/season.

Players who are below-average for 4th line players at everything and not likely to score more than 1 or 2 goals in 82 games shouldnít meet anyoneís expectations. If most other teams have Tim Jackmans and Travis Moens on their 4th line, thereís no reason we canít either.

Oreskovich has 2 goals, 46 PIM, and is a -13 in 85 NHL games. As Iíve said before, right now heís a poor manís Dan Lacouture, and thatís not a good thing.

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10-04-2011, 07:13 PM
  #195
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There's a good article (from this summer) on Weise in the "Prospects Central" section of the Ranger's official NHL.com website: http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=569955

While some earlier posts point to skating as one of Weise's main weaknesses, this article offers a different view. Here are some selected quotes:

From Weise's former coach Ken Gernander (of the AHL's Connecticut Whale/Hartford Wolf Pack):

Quote:
"He skates so well and shoots so well that he's a very good one-on-one player and can create some offense on his own from a one-on-one standpoint," said Connecticut head coach Ken Gernander. "He's also a very courageous player. He's actually a player whose game is heightened by (a physical) game. Sometimes you go into an opposing building and they come out with a little bit of snarl, and some guys will disappear. Dale's game seems to excel in those types of situations. When he's engaged physically and there's a little bit of grit in the game, he seems to pick his game up. That's a pretty admirable trait."
Quote:
"He's got a lot of the same qualities," said Gernander in comparing Weise to [Brandon] Dubinsky. "He doesn't have as thick of a lower body -- where Brandon can hold guys off with his good leg strength -- but he may be just a hair better skater. He does have that same type of swagger. That good confidence. Brandon went through a bit of a process, and I think Dale will have to go through that same process. But once he gets there, he can be a full-time player."
Rangers Assistant GM Jeff Gorton on Weise:

Quote:
"He's got size and he's gritty enough. He can really shoot a puck and he's a pretty handy guy because he's pretty well-rounded,"
Quote:
"He's at a point in his career where he's had a couple of years down there, and he probably feels like he's ready for the next step. It will be interesting to see where he's at by training camp," said Gorton. "He's a pretty well-rounded guy, and when he's on his game in Hartford, he's pretty hard to stop. Because he has that size and that strength and he's got the determination to go to the net, and he goes to those areas. I think he's got a bright future in the NHL."
Weise on himself:

Quote:
"I'm perfectly comfortable playing on the fourth line and being an energy guy, and having to drop the mitts and stand up for teammates whenever I have to," he said. "I'm more than willing to do that. But at the end of the day, I think once I kind of get going and am playing at that level, I think I can probably be a third-line guy, and if I need to step in and help on the second line, I think I can do that. I have proved at every level that once given an opportunity, I kind of work my way up and continue to score. ... I think I'm more than a fourth-line guy, but at the end of the day, I'd be more than happy and comfortable playing on the fourth line and just being an energy guy and grinding it out."
Gordie Clark, Rangers Director of Player Personnel:

Quote:
"It's not that he's counted on just to score goals or just to be a checker. He's also not just counted on to be a scrapper," said Gordie Clark, the Rangers' Director, Player Personnel. "He really is combination of all those guys, which is why he's in a unique position, because he does all of those things.

"When he's playing consistently and combining those three attributes, then he's a pretty tough player to play against."


Last edited by Iceberg Slim: 10-04-2011 at 07:16 PM. Reason: spelling
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10-04-2011, 07:15 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
No-one is saying it was the only issue, but it was definitely a problem.

0 goals scored in 25 playoff games. 8 goals against. No physical presence. No speed. No shutdown ability. No anything.

Just a total waste of 8 minutes in every game where the hope was that they wouldnít concede a goal. And itís been that way for a few years.

I donít think expectations are terribly high. I want a 4th line that can saw off minutes with opposing 4th lines, provide some consistent physical play, and has players who can score 5-10 goals/season.

Players who are below-average for 4th line players at everything and not likely to score more than 1 or 2 goals in 82 games shouldnít meet anyoneís expectations. If most other teams have Tim Jackmans and Travis Moens on their 4th line, thereís no reason we canít either.

Oreskovich has 2 goals, 46 PIM, and is a -13 in 85 NHL games. As Iíve said before, right now heís a poor manís Dan Lacouture, and thatís not a good thing.
Good post!
The other problem is that when injuries occur, fourth liners suddenly have to become third liners. If you have a player like Lapierre that's no problem but asking Glass or Oreskovich to move up a line is a big issue. You need guys who can move up to fill in for a few games during injuries.

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10-04-2011, 07:27 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
We didn't lose the Cup because we had a bad 4th line.
There isn't any one reason we lost the cup, but make no mistake Boston's 4th line was way better then ours.

There are a number of ways we can improve, the 4th line is one of them.

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10-04-2011, 07:28 PM
  #198
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I'm glad the Canucks went out and got an upgrade. I'd be okay with one of Volpatti or Oreskovich on the fourth line, but not both. Hopefully he's more then just a marginal upgrade.

Can't help but feel AV is really waiting for Pinizotto, though. If he is, I don't blame him.


I know some people feel the fourth line isn't important and some do, but I'm glad the Canucks are jumping at every possibility to improve.


Last edited by Wisp: 10-04-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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10-04-2011, 07:28 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by gurfling View Post
I don't have a problem with it, just seems like a weird pickup to me, doesn't seem to be much, if any of an upgrade, but I'll be interested to see him play & see what he can do.

Interestingly enough, it says in the Vancouver Sun that the 'Nucks tried to get him before.

http://www.vancouversun.com/Canucks+...276/story.html
Also interesting to read AV's comments re: how the Canucks' pro scouting team see Weise as an upgrade over Oreskovich:

Quote:
"I don't know the young man [Weise] at all so I'm going with my pro scouts' opinion right now," Vigneault said. "They're pretty happy with the pickup. They say he's a little bit busier on the ice, plays with a little bit more energy and is little bit more physical. His hockey sense, from what I understand, is good. Our guys seem to think he's an upgrade [from Oreskovich] and that's why we decided to go that route."

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...#ixzz1ZrXMof7G

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10-04-2011, 07:32 PM
  #200
mrmyheadhurts
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Originally Posted by Potatoe1 View Post
There isn't any one reason we lost the cup, but make no mistake Boston's 4th line was way better then ours.

There are a number of ways we can improve, the 4th line is one of them.
If was an issue but a very minor one in my eyes. If the Canucks had anything close to a second line in the finals, the 4th line is just fine and the Canucks probably have a Cup. More depth is always good of course but as long as we have Lappy or Manny on the 4th, I'm not too worried about it.

Anyway, if he is indeed an upgrade, I'm not complaining.

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