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Old
10-05-2011, 06:12 PM
  #101
serge2k
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
The Canucks lost more man games to injury on the defense this playoffs than every cup winner in the last 7-8 years combined. How many goalies have "held the fort" through that to win the cup? List off some cup winners with a defense as beat up as the Canucks' was in the finals. The way people talk it should be quite easy.

You know what I can list? Teams that won series with their goalie giving up as many goals as Luongo. It happens every year including Boston's ECF series and Chicago's cup winning series. Why couldn't the #1 offense and the #1 PP "hold the fort" for once when their back end was injured and their goalie struggling? Luongo sucked, but at least he didn't break any 60+ year old records for futility like the offense did.

You need luck to win the cup and it's as simple as that. The Canucks didn't have it on the injury front and it probably cost them a championship. Here's what Peter Chiarelli said after winning the cup:



People would be well advised to listen to those words. Sometimes things beyond the players' control happens which prevent them from performing at their best. Did Luongo need to be better? Yes. But all they hyperbole surrounding this playoff run is utterly ridiculous. Every aspect of the team's game was decimated due to injuries including their defensive game.
Excuses excuses excuses. They choked. Quit covering for them.

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Old
10-05-2011, 06:20 PM
  #102
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Excuses excuses excuses. They choked. Quit covering for them.
You could see the Canucks ran out of gas at the end. I think injuries play a huge part in that.

I won't discredit the Bruins, they were the better team in the final, but saying "they choked" is so knee-jerk. Is it really a line of reasoning?

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10-05-2011, 06:29 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
Excuses excuses excuses. They choked. Quit covering for them.
The offense choked, the defense was decimated, and Luongo was hung out to dry and his blunders were even more magnified.

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Old
10-05-2011, 06:30 PM
  #104
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The Luongo hate is borderline retarded to me.

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10-05-2011, 06:44 PM
  #105
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Luongo has become an underdog now. I'm sorta glad.

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10-05-2011, 06:46 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
Excuses excuses excuses. They choked. Quit covering for them.
Find me some teams in a similar situation that didn't "choke".

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Old
10-05-2011, 06:57 PM
  #107
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Luongo has become an underdog now. I'm sorta glad.
The whole team is an underdog in a sense this season. Last year everyone picked them to win it, this year, for whatever reason, no one has them picked to do anything.

Whether this is a good or bad thing, I guess we'll see.

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:15 PM
  #108
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Seriously, who cares? Let people think he sucks, let him be an underdog ... he'll probably play better that way.

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Old
10-05-2011, 08:25 PM
  #109
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Hey, they managed to resist the urge to have Jonathan Toews as #1, 2, and 3.
Hahaha, no kidding. I think I nearly spit out my drink laughing when they announced that last year. I like Toews but bloody hell is he overrated. Putting him ahead of Datsyuk and Malkin alone was ridiculous but this was just after Sedin notched 112 points while Toews had 68. Sure his playoff numbers were beastly but lets not push it.

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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
The whole team is an underdog in a sense this season. Last year everyone picked them to win it, this year, for whatever reason, no one has them picked to do anything.

Whether this is a good or bad thing, I guess we'll see.
I found that somewhat odd myself. We have not even been mentioned by a good number of the analysts when it comes to picking anything. Even the season, a lot have San Jose winning the conference and the "feel good" story lately has been Pittsburgh winning the cup with Crosby back. Frankly, I have long grown tired of them talking about him every damn second.

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10-06-2011, 01:18 AM
  #110
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I know that there's more to measuring a goalie than wins and shutouts, but when you compare the legacy of McLean's 15 wins & 4 shutouts (94) to Lu's 15 wins & 4 shutouts (2011)...
Just sayin.

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Old
10-06-2011, 01:42 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Schroeder View Post
I know that there's more to measuring a goalie than wins and shutouts, but when you compare the legacy of McLean's 15 wins & 4 shutouts (94) to Lu's 15 wins & 4 shutouts (2011)...
Just sayin.
I guess I gotta be the one to say it then....

McLean didn't blow up as fantastic as Luongo did during their respective runs. That is the one difference.

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10-06-2011, 03:27 AM
  #112
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I think it was Elliotte Freidman who said Luongo is a guy who can't just let criticism roll off his back.

Pretty disappointing to hear really. I don't think all Canucks fans are ever going to come to a collective agreement to not hurt his feelings anymore.
i think this is at the heart of it all.

whether it's 'fair' or not...doesn't really matter. people are going to pick at Lou as long as he has that vulnerability.

he really needs to take a page out of the Carey Price handbook and come up with the equivalent of, 'Chill...it's just the preseason.'

But he won't. He'll blame the team around him. He'll mope. He'll say, 'i'll try harder next time'. He'll play well after he has a meltdown...when it's already too late. He'll throw a visible hissyfit after some meaningless goal. He'll make a point of making it known that he's the 'hardest worker in practice' to show that he's really trying hard. He'll act arrogant about media questions...but deep down, you can still tell that they cut deep.

For an absolutely 'elite' goaltender like Luongo who needs to take that 'next step'...that 'next step' is finding a way to let criticism roll off his back, keep his focus, and man up THAT GAME before he's let in a million goals and the team is already moving into prep mode for the next game because the one they're currently in is a complete writeoff. It's what you see from cup winning goaltenders...Thomas, Niemi, Fleury, Osgood/Hasek, Giguere, etc. etc. etc. They've all faced their fair share of 'criticism' for all kinds of things...but they found a way to brush it aside and say...'**** it...i'm good enough to win the cup and i know it and i'm going to prove it'.

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Old
10-06-2011, 04:52 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
You could see the Canucks ran out of gas at the end. I think injuries play a huge part in that.

I won't discredit the Bruins, they were the better team in the final, but saying "they choked" is so knee-jerk. Is it really a line of reasoning?
It's definitely knee-jerk based on the result. Choking would mean that they get swept 4-0 in the series. The big picture is that, as a team, they got to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. That's the more logical way to look at it, in my opinion of course. That's not to say that Boston didn't look like the better team for the majority of the series, or that the Sedin's looked terrible. But, again - as a team, they accomplished as much as you can by 'choking,' if that's what some choose to call it.

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Old
10-06-2011, 10:58 AM
  #114
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No matter who the Canucks goalie is and how good or bad they play, they will always have their critics. Auld largely escaped it because Bertuzzi was a distraction for the only year he was the Cancucks starter and Cloutier was still around on the injured list. I'm also amazed at the rose coloured glasses folks wear when the remember Kirk McLean and the 94 cup run. They seem to forget how Kirk was run out of town when he became a very mediocre goalie in his last couple of years in Vancouver.

I liked Marc Crawford's comments yesterday on TSN about how tough the critics are on Vancouver's goalies, something that he is very familiar with. He said that even if the Canucks won the cup last year, some people would say they did it despite Lou's performance.

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Old
10-06-2011, 11:39 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian452 View Post
He said that even if the Canucks won the cup last year, some people would say they did it despite Lou's performance.
IIRC, Ferraro said that and Crawford agreed. The sad part is they are right, though.

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Old
10-06-2011, 11:52 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
IIRC, Ferraro said that and Crawford agreed. The sad part is they are right, though.
Of course. And Lou is forever in Crosby's debt for Sidney single handily saving his butt and winning him a Gold medal.

Back when the honeymoon still wasn't quite over Lou was credited for winning AV a Jack Adams. Later on when the Canucks changed to a more offensive style and the goals started going in, Lou was stripped of that credit and people realized that it was AV's defensive system that made Lou look good... not the other way around.

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10-06-2011, 12:16 PM
  #117
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It's a little unfortunate how much we take Lu for granted in Canuck land. No small part of the reason why we are the team that we are is because of good, consistent goaltending. Nowadays it's more of an afterthought...

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10-06-2011, 12:19 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
IIRC, Ferraro said that and Crawford agreed. The sad part is they are right, though.
Yeah..Ferraro seems to hate our fanbase. Sad part is that I agree with him

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Old
10-06-2011, 12:52 PM
  #119
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I guess I gotta be the one to say it then....

McLean didn't blow up as fantastic as Luongo did during their respective runs. That is the one difference.
McLean got 19 goals for of offensive support. Luongo got 8. Give Luongo 11 more goals and we win the Stanley Cup.

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Old
10-06-2011, 04:07 PM
  #120
serge2k
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Originally Posted by Cody Schroeder View Post
I know that there's more to measuring a goalie than wins and shutouts, but when you compare the legacy of McLean's 15 wins & 4 shutouts (94) to Lu's 15 wins & 4 shutouts (2011)...
Just sayin.
McLean imploded in the final?

oh wait, he helped them come back from being down 3-1. Luongo blew a 2-0 and 3-2 lead.

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Old
10-06-2011, 04:09 PM
  #121
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Yeah..Ferraro seems to hate our fanbase. Sad part is that I agree with him
I don't think it would be our fanbase.

It would be the same people who consistenly whined through the entire playoffs about the horrible evil canucks destroying hockey.

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Old
10-06-2011, 04:56 PM
  #122
LiquidSnake
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
McLean got 19 goals for of offensive support. Luongo got 8. Give Luongo 11 more goals and we win the Stanley Cup.
Not that I want to argue against my own thread but give Luongo 11 more goals and people will still say that he didnt play well. Which would be correct.

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Old
10-06-2011, 04:59 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
Yeah..Ferraro seems to hate our fanbase. Sad part is that I agree with him
I'd have to disagree. Players may dislike our fanbase because we hold all of our players accountable. Regardless if they're HOFers (Messier) or plugs (Glass). Noone gets off the hook.

If anything, fans across Canada (except Montreal) could learn a thing or 2 about holding their players/management more accountable rather than simple giving them a pass year after year.

Can you imagine how badly Burke or Kipper would be ripped right now if they were Canucks?

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Old
10-06-2011, 05:06 PM
  #124
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
McLean imploded in the final?

oh wait, he helped them come back from being down 3-1. Luongo blew a 2-0 and 3-2 lead.
Since when has a team ever won a game 0-0? You need to score to win, and we had a problem doing that.

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Not that I want to argue against my own thread but give Luongo 11 more goals and people will still say that he didnt play well. Which would be correct.
To an extent...

You realize McLean gave up more goals in the 1994 SCF than Luongo gave up in the 2011 SCF, right?

Luongo had bad moments, but he also had brilliant moments. It's funny how people choose to dwell on the bad moments calling him a choker while completely ignoring the brilliant moments where if not for him the series is over in 4 or 5.

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Old
10-06-2011, 05:14 PM
  #125
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Since when has a team ever won a game 0-0? You need to score to win, and we had a problem doing that.



To an extent...

You realize McLean gave up more goals in the 1994 SCF than Luongo gave up in the 2011 SCF, right?

Luongo had bad moments, but he also had brilliant moments. It's funny how people choose to dwell on the bad moments calling him a choker while completely ignoring the brilliant moments where if not for him the series is over in 4 or 5.
People seem to forget Luongo's save in OT on Sharp, nor any of his clutch saves in the Olympics. They think the Canucks would have won the cup with ANY other goalie. They actually think the team that scored 8 goals would have scored 20+ if their own goalie was different. This is the logic they cling to, and it shows that they basically have the lowest IQ's around, because not only do they not understand 'team sports', they also dont understand math.

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