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Is this a cap circumvention?

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:57 PM
  #26
RJ8812
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it's a smart move

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:58 PM
  #27
mcphllp
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makes sense, not circumvention

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:59 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skroob View Post
Its not circumvention, but i would be pissed as hell if i was Schenn. Taking money out of my pocket because you cant properly manage your staff assets? Fark you.
really?

it's either: stay in the AHL with your $3.5m cap hit but only make $70,000, or miss one game and play at the NHL level with half the cap hit and make $800k with potential to double that


the choice is pretty easy and one that schenn probably agrees with

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:27 PM
  #29
kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
really?

it's either: stay in the AHL with your $3.5m cap hit but only make $70,000, or miss one game and play at the NHL level with half the cap hit and make $800k with potential to double that


the choice is pretty easy and one that schenn probably agrees with
No. Dreger's original story is completely bogus - the Flyers will not gain any cap space due to bonuses by Schenn missing one game (*). See above (post #16).

All they will save is his daily salary for every day he is in the AHL.

The Flyers invented the AHL shuttle in the year after the Lockout when they shuttled several players across the street to their AHL affiliate Phantoms. Since then several teams who were right up against the cap (including the Sharks a couple of years ago) have saved cap space by sending players down after a game day and recalling them for the next game (so that they were only on the NHL Roster and accruing a cap hit on game days). It is possible to reduce a players effective cap hit by >50% by doing this.

(*) Some of the allowable bonuses have a 42 games played minimum, so, yes if they keep him in the minors for 41 games, then yes his cap hit from bonuses will be reduced. What will actually happen is that his cap hit will remain the same, but the team will receive a cap credit (the teams Average Club Salary will be reduced by) in the cash amount of the unearned bonus at the point in the season when it becomes impossible to achieve.

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:35 PM
  #30
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They lose the services of Schenn for that game so it really isn't circumventing anything.

Kind of a weird bonus to include in the first place, though? It's basically useless other than taking up cap space until he can no longer achieve it.

edit: nvm, seems that couldn't have been a bonus at all...

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:37 PM
  #31
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Cap circumvention? LOL not even close. Schenn is the one that signed the contract with a ridiculous bonus stipulation. As such, he's the one that's missing out on all that bonus cash.

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:41 PM
  #32
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I hate how people whine and worry about cap circumvention. Absolutely hate seeing the two words.

Is waiving Avery racism?

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:49 PM
  #33
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Whatever gets around the collusion cap is great news IMO.

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10-04-2011, 11:51 PM
  #34
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Schenn would definitely win if he files a grievance.

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:58 PM
  #35
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kdb209, do GM's call you when they're confused?

You're amazing.

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Old
10-05-2011, 12:05 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
Whatever gets around the collusion cap is great news IMO.
The players and owners agreed to the "collusion cap" (as you call it). Are you suggesting that they colluded? If so, who were they colluding against?

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Old
10-05-2011, 12:57 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
No. Dreger's original story is completely bogus - the Flyers will not gain any cap space due to bonuses by Schenn missing one game (*). See above (post #16).

(*) Some of the allowable bonuses have a 42 games played minimum, so, yes if they keep him in the minors for 41 games, then yes his cap hit from bonuses will be reduced. What will actually happen is that his cap hit will remain the same, but the team will receive a cap credit (the teams Average Club Salary will be reduced by) in the cash amount of the unearned bonus at the point in the season when it becomes impossible to achieve.
Is the 42 games minimum requirement an absolute and automatic one or is the minimum possible requirement? In other words, could LA had included 82 games minimum requirement in Schenn's contract for him to be eligible for ice time based bonuses?

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Old
10-05-2011, 01:03 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No View Post
The players and owners agreed to the "collusion cap" (as you call it). Are you suggesting that they colluded? If so, who were they colluding against?
The man...duh

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Old
10-05-2011, 01:22 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skroob View Post
Its not circumvention, but i would be pissed as hell if i was Schenn. Taking money out of my pocket because you cant properly manage your staff assets? Fark you.
Who would he be mad at? His agent for agreeing on that contract? Lombardi for offering it? There's no way Schenn thought that he could have actually played 82 games at 25 mins per...not in his first year.

And he has no reason to be mad at the Flyers...at all.

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10-05-2011, 01:27 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Who would he be mad at? His agent for agreeing on that contract? Lombardi for offering it? There's no way Schenn thought that he could have actually played 82 games at 25 mins per...not in his first year.

And he has no reason to be mad at the Flyers...at all.
There's no such bonus that's been cleared up. The article is bogus. It's not clear what they are going to do right now but it sounds like they are going to keeping sending him down and calling him up the whole year. I have a hard time believing the flyers would be that stupid but time will tell.

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Old
10-05-2011, 02:00 AM
  #41
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I'm confused. Why is Schenn being sent down for one game?

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10-05-2011, 02:11 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonAJ View Post
I'm confused. Why is Schenn being sent down for one game?
"Shoulder injury".

Tough to tell if it is legit or if he is just playing along to allow time for Lappy to be put on roster and then straight to LTIR and also to give more room for Couturier to try to show he can stick.

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Old
10-05-2011, 06:26 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xifentoozlerix View Post
"Shoulder injury".

Tough to tell if it is legit or if he is just playing along to allow time for Lappy to be put on roster and then straight to LTIR and also to give more room for Couturier to try to show he can stick.
Homer also said he's ready to play so I don't think the injury is an issue. Dreger and McKenzie are the 2 guys I trust with this so has Dreger actually confirmed that this 25 minute/game clause isn't real?

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Old
10-05-2011, 06:31 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Schenn would definitely win if he files a grievance.
Exactly what grounds would he have to file a grievance?

He is the Flyers property and they can send him down to the AHL if they want to.

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:04 AM
  #45
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it's not the first time a player gets sent down because his salary is too high and doesn't fit in the team salary.

some players should receive smaller salaries to be sure they're in the NHL. For a rookie, having a cap hit of more than 3.5 millions is clearly not helping his case. He would have to be very good to deserve this cap hit.

Isn't it Larsson who accepted less bonuses? That gives him a lot more chances to make the NHL. A good rookie at 900 000$ is a lot more valuable than one at a 3.5 M cap hit.

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:30 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Schenn would definitely win if he files a grievance.
And how would a kid with no time in the NHL win a grievance? Unless you think he is entitled to a roster spot, which he is not.

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:38 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
[URL="http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=377385"/?id=377385[/URL] However upon learning of the reduced cap I was ready to proclaim Holmgren a genius and GM criminal mastermind.
If there's one GM in the league who has definitely not earned the title "salary cap genius"...

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:42 AM
  #48
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Uh...he has to play 25 minutes a game, every game?

Why send him down? Just make sure the first game he doesn't even hit 20 minutes. Problem solved much less obviously.

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:42 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
No. Dreger's original story is completely bogus - the Flyers will not gain any cap space due to bonuses by Schenn missing one game (*). See above (post #16).

All they will save is his daily salary for every day he is in the AHL.

The Flyers invented the AHL shuttle in the year after the Lockout when they shuttled several players across the street to their AHL affiliate Phantoms. Since then several teams who were right up against the cap (including the Sharks a couple of years ago) have saved cap space by sending players down after a game day and recalling them for the next game (so that they were only on the NHL Roster and accruing a cap hit on game days). It is possible to reduce a players effective cap hit by >50% by doing this.

(*) Some of the allowable bonuses have a 42 games played minimum, so, yes if they keep him in the minors for 41 games, then yes his cap hit from bonuses will be reduced. What will actually happen is that his cap hit will remain the same, but the team will receive a cap credit (the teams Average Club Salary will be reduced by) in the cash amount of the unearned bonus at the point in the season when it becomes impossible to achieve.
BINGO!!!

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Old
10-05-2011, 08:02 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi View Post
Uh...he has to play 25 minutes a game, every game?

Why send him down? Just make sure the first game he doesn't even hit 20 minutes. Problem solved much less obviously.
Because then the Flyers need to fit the 3.1 hit under the cap for the first game of the season.

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