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proposal ott//was

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Old
08-21-2004, 03:11 PM
  #1
marco389
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proposal ott//was

to washington : Anton Volchenkov + Todd White
to ottawa : Brendan Witt + Nolan Yonkman + Jakub Cutta + Brian Sutherby +8epick(2005)

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08-21-2004, 04:47 PM
  #2
Drake1588
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Washington wouldn't go for it.

They want Witt to mentor the rookies, they can't afford to give up two NHL-ready prospect defensemen in Cutta and Yonkman (despite the latter's injury history, Cutta looks quite promising) and they like Sutherby.

Volchenkov is a solid defenseman, and White has some uses as a versatile player, but that's three solid, NHL-ready prospects plus their asset with the most trade value in Witt, and that is too much.

It is very likely that Witt won't be dealt, won't even be shopped, before the trade deadline -- at the earliest -- and even then, only because his UFA status could be imminent, depending on the UFA age under the next CBA.

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08-21-2004, 04:59 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Washington wouldn't go for it.

They want Witt to mentor the rookies, they can't afford to give up two NHL-ready prospect defensemen in Cutta and Yonkman (despite the latter's injury history, Cutta looks quite promising) and they like Sutherby.

Volchenkov is a solid defenseman, and White has some uses as a versatile player, but that's three solid, NHL-ready prospects plus their asset with the most trade value in Witt, and that is too much.

It is very likely that Witt won't be dealt, won't even be shopped, before the trade deadline -- at the earliest -- and even then, only because his UFA status could be imminent, depending on the UFA age under the next CBA.
Finally, someone with comon sense on this board. That proposal is so one sided it should never have been written. Remember you find a tema that has what you want and you have what they want then you go on from there . Trades are made only when each team is a match so please make your proposals based on that.

Drake1588 that was a very good response and great post I thank you for you understanding of hockey and you knowledge of trades.

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Old
08-21-2004, 05:30 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco389
to washington : Anton Volchenkov + Todd White
to ottawa : Brendan Witt + Nolan Yonkman + Jakub Cutta + Brian Sutherby +8epick(2005)
The Caps give up way to much here.

The Caps are not going to trade Witt right now. I beleive that he will be traded at the trade deadline, but the Caps are not going to give him up yet.

The Caps org loves Brian Sutherby, so I can't see them throwing him into a deal like this. Not to mention at the moment both he and Yonkman have injury concerns so I can't see why a team would want them untill they are healthy.

I beleive that Witt will be dealt next season, but it won't be anytime soon for 2 reasons. 1. The Caps need his vet leadership. 2. his trade value would be higher at the deadline than it is right now.

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08-21-2004, 05:42 PM
  #5
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No from the Ottawa side too. Doesn't really fill any needs for us. We give up a young, gritty dman with high upside for a solid, gritty, stay-at-home dman, a lateral move at best. At this point, the Senators don't need a top 4 dman. They already have one of, if not the, best bluelines in the league, no need in taking what's already great and trying to make it better (we learned that from the Bondra experiment). Then we get three prospects, which is nice, but this team is here to win now.

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08-21-2004, 09:31 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisher
No from the Ottawa side too. Doesn't really fill any needs for us. We give up a young, gritty dman with high upside for a solid, gritty, stay-at-home dman, a lateral move at best. At this point, the Senators don't need a top 4 dman. They already have one of, if not the, best bluelines in the league, no need in taking what's already great and trying to make it better (we learned that from the Bondra experiment). Then we get three prospects, which is nice, but this team is here to win now.

Dude if that deal was ever offered to Muckler, he would soil himself, accept and then soil himself again

Not even close

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Old
08-21-2004, 10:03 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by NataSatan666
Dude if that deal was ever offered to Muckler, he would soil himself, accept and then soil himself again

Not even close
Cutta and Yonkman are crap prospects worth about a bag of pucks so essentially the deal is Volchenkov and White for Witt and Sutherby. Volchenkov is easily the most valuable asset in the bunch ... he's already very good and should be a top-2 defender and absolute rock for the next decade. Witt's value is severely depreciated because he'll be an UFA after the season and there's no way in hell Washington will keep him, and there's also no way in hell they'll be getting a Volchenkov-calibre player in a deal for him if they move him at the deadline.

In terms of value, the assets here are:

1) Volchenkov
2) Witt
3) Sutherby
4) White

Frankly I think McPhee would take it ... it's highly unlikely they'll get a better return than that for Witt ... Volchenkov would almost certainly step into their top 4 right away. Sutherby's development has been kind of iffy and it doesn't look like he'll be any more than a role player so while I'm sure they'd prefer to keep him it wouldn't hurt that much. White would add some offense to a team that has virtually nothing up front.

Cap fans were crowing about getting Morrisonn in the Gonchar deal and I'd rate Volchenkov a fair bit ahead of Morrisonn and Witt a fair bit behind Gonchar in terms of value.

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Old
08-21-2004, 11:03 PM
  #8
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Washington would never do it.

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Old
08-22-2004, 03:03 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Cutta and Yonkman are crap prospects worth about a bag of pucks so essentially the deal is Volchenkov and White for Witt and Sutherby. Volchenkov is easily the most valuable asset in the bunch ... he's already very good and should be a top-2 defender and absolute rock for the next decade. Witt's value is severely depreciated because he'll be an UFA after the season and there's no way in hell Washington will keep him, and there's also no way in hell they'll be getting a Volchenkov-calibre player in a deal for him if they move him at the deadline.

In terms of value, the assets here are:

1) Volchenkov
2) Witt
3) Sutherby
4) White

Frankly I think McPhee would take it ... it's highly unlikely they'll get a better return than that for Witt ... Volchenkov would almost certainly step into their top 4 right away. Sutherby's development has been kind of iffy and it doesn't look like he'll be any more than a role player so while I'm sure they'd prefer to keep him it wouldn't hurt that much. White would add some offense to a team that has virtually nothing up front.

Cap fans were crowing about getting Morrisonn in the Gonchar deal and I'd rate Volchenkov a fair bit ahead of Morrisonn and Witt a fair bit behind Gonchar in terms of value.
You'd rate that huh? No Caps fans will get near that deal. Witt is JUST the kind of help Ottawa needs. These deals for our best defenseman, One of our top prospects, a guy in Cutta who will probably be our 5 and 6 for Volchenkov, a 3 or 4 and White a 4 or 5. Not gonna ever get that deal. Witt, if traded, will likely go at the trade deadline. Teams will line up. If you wanted to talk Volchenkov and Ottawa's first in 2005 that might fly. Being our only defenseman with playing experience, The pricetag will be very high. I think the Caps will wind up signing him to a 3 year deal. Volchenkov may be good in the future but he's no Witt yet. White is a 4 at best. I rate them this way.

1. Witt
2. Volchenkov
3. Yonkman
4. Sutherby
5. White
6. Cutta
7. 8th Pick

It's just a silly proposal. It's really funny how nearly EVERYONE asks for Sutherby and then says how he has been a disappointment. If he's not going to develop why ask? Answer, he will probably have a break out season this year. Sutherby just isn't going to be traded. Why don't you just throw in that Chara guy?

I'm surprised you didn't ask for our #1!

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08-22-2004, 02:32 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco389
to washington : Anton Volchenkov + Todd White
to ottawa : Brendan Witt + Nolan Yonkman + Jakub Cutta + Brian Sutherby +8epick(2005)

I'm sure Senators fans will disagree, but I think Washington gives up too much in value. Also, from a Sens point of view, I doubt they'd want all 3 of the D-men.

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Old
08-22-2004, 03:04 PM
  #11
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This is one of those fantasy hockey specials that would have no chance of happening in the real world.

A. There are two many players in this trade for it to happen that way. Witt for Volchenkov and a draft pick of some kind makes some sense, if the Caps decided to trade Witt. Sutherby and a draft pick for Volchenkov makes some sense, because the Caps are overflowing with forward prospects right now. But a 6 or 7 asset deal just is over kill.

B. the Caps are very shorthanded on defense. This amounts to a trade of 3 defensemen for 1 defenseman. Witt is the Caps #1 defenseman and Yonkman is NHL ready if he stays healthy enough to play. He was ready two years ago and has been on rehab ever since. The Caps could not afford to trade him and watch him get healthy with another team. That would be a disaster. Short of the injuries however, there is nothing wrong with this player as a prospect. He played well in the NHL when he has had the chance to play and his AHL play since then has been outstanding. Cutta is an enigma. Who knows about him.

C. Lastly, sometime people put these potential trades together by saying that a 4 quality player and a 2 quality player equal 6 and would be a fair trade for 3 1 quality players and a 3. its trading 6 for 6, but has no chance of really working.
the capitals are not going to disrupt their deep group of prospects at AHL that they want to create chemistry together by shipping out 3 at once. they are also not going to trade the only veteran defenseman that they have either.

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Old
08-22-2004, 03:45 PM
  #12
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extreme over pay on wsh.'s part.

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Old
08-22-2004, 04:44 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
You'd rate that huh? No Caps fans will get near that deal. Witt is JUST the kind of help Ottawa needs. These deals for our best defenseman, One of our top prospects, a guy in Cutta who will probably be our 5 and 6 for Volchenkov, a 3 or 4 and White a 4 or 5. Not gonna ever get that deal. Witt, if traded, will likely go at the trade deadline. Teams will line up. If you wanted to talk Volchenkov and Ottawa's first in 2005 that might fly. Being our only defenseman with playing experience, The pricetag will be very high. I think the Caps will wind up signing him to a 3 year deal. Volchenkov may be good in the future but he's no Witt yet. White is a 4 at best. I rate them this way.

1. Witt
2. Volchenkov
3. Yonkman
4. Sutherby
5. White
6. Cutta
7. 8th Pick

It's just a silly proposal. It's really funny how nearly EVERYONE asks for Sutherby and then says how he has been a disappointment. If he's not going to develop why ask? Answer, he will probably have a break out season this year. Sutherby just isn't going to be traded. Why don't you just throw in that Chara guy?

I'm surprised you didn't ask for our #1!
I dont get what you mean with the numbers what do you mean?


Last edited by Bileur: 08-22-2004 at 05:06 PM.
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Old
08-23-2004, 10:09 AM
  #14
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washington is trying to rebuild not unload prospects.
this trade would slow down washington rebuilding

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Old
08-23-2004, 10:39 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regdunlap7
I'm sure Senators fans will disagree, but I think Washington gives up too much in value. Also, from a Sens point of view, I doubt they'd want all 3 of the D-men.
they'd take it and then put together some assets for more trades. Caps lose big time in that proposal.

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08-23-2004, 01:33 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capman29
Finally, someone with comon sense on this board. That proposal is so one sided it should never have been written. Remember you find a tema that has what you want and you have what they want then you go on from there . Trades are made only when each team is a match so please make your proposals based on that.

Drake1588 that was a very good response and great post I thank you for you understanding of hockey and you knowledge of trades.
I agree

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Old
08-23-2004, 05:43 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
You'd rate that huh? No Caps fans will get near that deal. Witt is JUST the kind of help Ottawa needs. These deals for our best defenseman, One of our top prospects, a guy in Cutta who will probably be our 5 and 6 for Volchenkov, a 3 or 4 and White a 4 or 5. Not gonna ever get that deal. Witt, if traded, will likely go at the trade deadline. Teams will line up. If you wanted to talk Volchenkov and Ottawa's first in 2005 that might fly. Being our only defenseman with playing experience, The pricetag will be very high. I think the Caps will wind up signing him to a 3 year deal. Volchenkov may be good in the future but he's no Witt yet. White is a 4 at best. I rate them this way.

1st. White is a Center not a number 4 Dman....

I don't think that Washington would do this trade. Getting two established NHLers is pretty good, but giving up your no. 1 d man, even w/ UFA status coming up, isn't the best move one could make.

Keep in mind that Washington cleaned house already, they probably will stop now and they have the room (if a CAP is in place) to sign Witt to a long term deal and the capital to put up if there is no cap. (The owner isn't exactly going broke and the market isn't small.).

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08-24-2004, 12:35 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
1st. White is a Center not a number 4 Dman....

I don't think that Washington would do this trade. Getting two established NHLers is pretty good, but giving up your no. 1 d man, even w/ UFA status coming up, isn't the best move one could make.

Keep in mind that Washington cleaned house already, they probably will stop now and they have the room (if a CAP is in place) to sign Witt to a long term deal and the capital to put up if there is no cap. (The owner isn't exactly going broke and the market isn't small.).
Good clarification, a Center but likely a #4 (4th most talented or fourth line) guy. Being not very deep in nhl ready d-men, we will only do deals that add defenseman. If we did a 2 for 1 it would be for an ESTABLISHED young star and include a forward and not a dman. I see that kind of a deal more likely next year. We have some young dmen we added in the draft but only Mike Green may compete for a spot this year. I don't think he'll make it.

So, the proposed deal says we trade Witt, a 2/3 to Ottawa for Volchenkov, a 4. So you get the better of that. Then we give Sutherby, Yonkman(same or better potential as Volchenkov), Cutta(probably a 5/6 for us), & an 8th for a guy in White who will be a thirdliner tops? I wouldn't give ANY of those guys for White straight up. The deal is putrid homerism in my opinion. When our plethora of young forwards come NHL ready, (they are closer than our dmen) then White may not even make the team. I might give ya the 8th for him.

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08-24-2004, 02:20 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
So, the proposed deal says we trade Witt, a 2/3 to Ottawa for Volchenkov, a 4. So you get the better of that.
This is like saying that Toronto gets ripped off if they send Brian Leetch (a #1 or #2) to Florida for Jay Bouwmeester (probably a #3 at this point). There are other factors here. Of course Witt is a better player right now and of course he'll be better next year. But he'll be an UFA after the season in all likelihood, and it's highly dubious that he'll want to re-sign with the worst team in the league when he'll be in demand from contenders. So his market value is depreciated. If you think you'll get equal value for him, you're dreaming. Volchenkov is one of the top 10 or 12 defenders in the league under the age of 22, and to pick up a guy like that would be a terrific return on an impending UFA.

Seriously, what do you think you're going to get for Witt? If you want anything better than Volchenkov you're looking at guys like Hamhuis and Pitkanen, who are the next step up. Or elite prospects like Coburn and Phaneuf. And hopefully you realize that just isn't going to happen. To get a guy like Volchenkov would be the biggest return I can remember for a comparable impending UFA. He'd immediately step into your top 4, and become the main building block for your future on the blueline along with Morrisonn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
Then we give Sutherby, Yonkman(same or better potential as Volchenkov), Cutta(probably a 5/6 for us), & an 8th for a guy in White who will be a thirdliner tops? I wouldn't give ANY of those guys for White straight up. The deal is putrid homerism in my opinion. When our plethora of young forwards come NHL ready, (they are closer than our dmen) then White may not even make the team. I might give ya the 8th for him.
Sorry, but Cutta and Yonkman are junk. There's no point even including them in the deal because Ottawa wouldn't want them and both would have little trouble clearing waivers at this point. Yonkman has barely played in two years and was a second-rate prospect before that, and to say he has equal or better potential than Volchenkov is so whacked I can barely comprehend it. Cutta has the skill level of a fire hydrant and wouldn't be in the top 10 of anyone's depth chart outside of Washington. These guys have *zero* market value ... the 8th round pick is a better asset. As I said in my original post, just take them out of the deal - it doesn't do Washington any good to lose them and it doesn't do Ottawa any good to get them.

White would be a 'third liner, tops'? Huh? Right now the guy would be your #1 center and probably your best forward outside of Halpern. The 60 points he scored two years ago is more than any player on your roster has scored, ever. Heck, the 50 points he scored 3 years ago is more than any player on your roster has scored, ever. I agree his market value isn't huge and that Sutherby, despite disappointing progress, is probably worth somewhat more. But he isn't a stiff and does have value.

I'm not a fan of either team, I didn't make the original proposal, and I think I'm being pretty unbiased here. The only person being a blatant homer here is you. You're over-rating what you'll get for Witt and you're in denial that he'll want to go somewhere else. You're hugely over-rating marginal Cap defensive prospects. You're over-rating the impact that your forward prospects will have in the next few years. And you're substantially underrating what the players coming the other way bring to the table.

Again, I'd break the deal down like this:

Volchenkov has more trade value than Witt because of Witt's contract situation.
Sutherby has more trade value than White
Yonkman and Cutta have no value, and should be taken out of the deal.

Equal trade, or close to it.

If you wouldn't make the deal, that's fine. There are certainly decent reasons to justify that position. But to say that it isn't close or that McPhee wouldn't give it a good hard look is hogwash. Any deal for Witt that has a young talent the quality of Volchenkov moving the other way is a quality offer.

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08-24-2004, 02:49 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Equal trade, or close to it.

If you wouldn't make the deal, that's fine. There are certainly decent reasons to justify that position. But to say that it isn't close or that McPhee wouldn't give it a good hard look is hogwash. Any deal for Witt that has a young talent the quality of Volchenkov moving the other way is a quality offer.
Thanks MS. You saved me a lot of frustration with that post.

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Old
08-24-2004, 03:18 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Volchenkov has more trade value than Witt because of Witt's contract situation.
Sutherby has more trade value than White
Yonkman and Cutta have no value, and should be taken out of the deal.
.

Although I agree with most of your points, I still think quite a few teams would take a chance on Yonkman and Cutta. It probably is a little harsh to suggest than neither guy has any value.

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08-24-2004, 03:36 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Although I agree with most of your points, I still think quite a few teams would take a chance on Yonkman and Cutta. It probably is a little harsh to suggest than neither guy has any value.
I'm sure that if either guy were an UFA, someone would offer him a contract. They aren't write-offs yet. But there's a big difference between taking a chance on a guy as a free agent and actually dealing assets for that player's services. Both guys are already 23/24 and would be around #9-12 on the depth chart of virtually every NHL team. Players in that situation just don't have any trade value.

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08-24-2004, 05:54 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
This is like saying that Toronto gets ripped off if they send Brian Leetch (a #1 or #2) to Florida for Jay Bouwmeester (probably a #3 at this point). There are other factors here. Of course Witt is a better player right now and of course he'll be better next year. But he'll be an UFA after the season in all likelihood, and it's highly dubious that he'll want to re-sign with the worst team in the league when he'll be in demand from contenders. So his market value is depreciated. If you think you'll get equal value for him, you're dreaming. Volchenkov is one of the top 10 or 12 defenders in the league under the age of 22, and to pick up a guy like that would be a terrific return on an impending UFA.

Seriously, what do you think you're going to get for Witt? If you want anything better than Volchenkov you're looking at guys like Hamhuis and Pitkanen, who are the next step up. Or elite prospects like Coburn and Phaneuf. And hopefully you realize that just isn't going to happen. To get a guy like Volchenkov would be the biggest return I can remember for a comparable impending UFA. He'd immediately step into your top 4, and become the main building block for your future on the blueline along with Morrisonn.



Sorry, but Cutta and Yonkman are junk. There's no point even including them in the deal because Ottawa wouldn't want them and both would have little trouble clearing waivers at this point. Yonkman has barely played in two years and was a second-rate prospect before that, and to say he has equal or better potential than Volchenkov is so whacked I can barely comprehend it. Cutta has the skill level of a fire hydrant and wouldn't be in the top 10 of anyone's depth chart outside of Washington. These guys have *zero* market value ... the 8th round pick is a better asset. As I said in my original post, just take them out of the deal - it doesn't do Washington any good to lose them and it doesn't do Ottawa any good to get them.

White would be a 'third liner, tops'? Huh? Right now the guy would be your #1 center and probably your best forward outside of Halpern. The 60 points he scored two years ago is more than any player on your roster has scored, ever. Heck, the 50 points he scored 3 years ago is more than any player on your roster has scored, ever. I agree his market value isn't huge and that Sutherby, despite disappointing progress, is probably worth somewhat more. But he isn't a stiff and does have value.

I'm not a fan of either team, I didn't make the original proposal, and I think I'm being pretty unbiased here. The only person being a blatant homer here is you. You're over-rating what you'll get for Witt and you're in denial that he'll want to go somewhere else. You're hugely over-rating marginal Cap defensive prospects. You're over-rating the impact that your forward prospects will have in the next few years. And you're substantially underrating what the players coming the other way bring to the table.

Again, I'd break the deal down like this:

Volchenkov has more trade value than Witt because of Witt's contract situation.
Sutherby has more trade value than White
Yonkman and Cutta have no value, and should be taken out of the deal.

Equal trade, or close to it.

If you wouldn't make the deal, that's fine. There are certainly decent reasons to justify that position. But to say that it isn't close or that McPhee wouldn't give it a good hard look is hogwash. Any deal for Witt that has a young talent the quality of Volchenkov moving the other way is a quality offer.
First of all, contracts are not a deterrent to good teams unless they are Jagr-esque. The fact that he will be a free agent will deter NO decent team. Sure didn't deter Philly with Oates. Contracts should not effect the base value in a trade. The base value of a player should be his performance. Then potential, contract, etc. represent an upside of a trade. Witt is better for the next 2 years even by your admission. On a top line, White would not score 60. He'd be lucky to get 30. You face better checking on a higher line. My point being White may not be an upper line guy. Nothing wrong with a 3rd or 4th Line guy. I would not trade Sutherby, Yonkman, or even Cutta for him at this point. Sutherby and Yonkman are close to making the team and raising their performance level. Injuries have slowed them down. I still would not give up on that upside. 3 years ago? How many points did he have last year? That is what his value is. If he returns to that level, then that would be an upside. The Caps need the NHL ready or near ready guys they have. Cutta as a 5/6 is more valuable to them than a forward. With Ovechkin, Semin, Fehr, Flesichmann, Sykora, Aulin, Pettinger, Halpern, Werner, Fussey, Sutherby, Klepis, Gordon, Yunkov, Bourque, Zubrus, Robertson, Johannson, Our #1 next year, we have quite a few guys that could become regulars. All won't make it. Some of them will. As Ovechkin's and Semin's mature, they would be pushing White down the list. What was a 1st line (if he could be that) becomes a 3rd liner. Judging a team after a firesale is hardly fair. We sucked last year. We will be bad this year. But after that we will be improving steadily.

Yonkman's issue hasn't been his play. He was a Top4 guy before injuries hit him. Keep him healthy and he is a top4 guy. Keep him healthy for a couple of years running and he could be a top pairing guy. Greater upside than Volchenkov.

Multiple teams inquired about Witt at the trading deadline. His issue is he takes the first half of the season off. He is a MONSTER in the second half of the season. His current salary has him at a bargain price. To be mentioned in the same breath as an offenseman like Leetch is nearly criminal. Leetch is a puck carrier. Witt is a body cruncher. Two different styles. Witt is far more steady and solid. His game in the last half of last year took a step up. He was our #1 for the last part of the season. His value to the Caps is probably more than to many teams at this time. On a team like Ottawa, he would add a gritty element to a defense beyond the Chara pairing.
Rarely will people put their heads down with Witt in the area. Rest assured that people know where he is on the ice.

It's not about insulting Volchenkov. It's about recognizing what the Caps need. In Volchenkov, they would get a guy who isn't as good as Witt right now. The #1 pick bridges the gap in the deal. Potential is the upside for the Caps. Adding a #1 pick would allow a selection of another dman prospect. Unless they luck out, it would be 2-3 years before a late first would have an impact. So we give up 2-3 years where Witt is better than Volchenkov for the years after that and for the extra pick that could add talent. That's how I see it working. Otherwise, why give up 2-3 years of a better player????

I could see you argue a Volchenkov for Witt is an equal trade. I don't agree but I could see some would agree. Sutherby, Yonkman, Cutta and an 8th make it hogwash. I see no reason to say that is anything but hogwash. Ottawa adding a 1st adds the ingredient that makes it a GO. That would be a potential to improve. Another 1st in a deep draft for a team committed to youth has appeal. I'd like to have Volchenkov. He's like you said a promising young player. That gives him appeal. Getting a Witt would move Ottawa towards a grittier team. I believe that accomplishes something beyond just a talent swap. Losing Witt would be a blow to our team. Any hopes of being somewhat decent this year leave when Witt does.


Last edited by borro: 08-24-2004 at 06:07 PM.
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08-24-2004, 08:20 PM
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Borro, there were probably quite a few teams looking at Witt at the deadline for a number of reasons. Washington was clearly out of it, and looking to move player. So, Witt was viewed as available. In addition, there were quite a few teams that wanted to add veteran defenders at the deadline. But, the reality that teams were looking at Witt, and maybe asking about him, doesn't mean there was huge return being offered. Witt, with the contract issues and all, probably has limited market value at this time.

Volchenkov is one of the better young dmen out there. Ottawa could get substantial return for him if they wanted to move him. Witt would not begin to interest them at that price, and Sutherby doens't begin to close the gap.

I tend to agree with you that others are discounting Yonkman too much. But, not as much as you are overrating Witt.

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08-24-2004, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Borro, there were probably quite a few teams looking at Witt at the deadline for a number of reasons. Washington was clearly out of it, and looking to move player. So, Witt was viewed as available. In addition, there were quite a few teams that wanted to add veteran defenders at the deadline. But, the reality that teams were looking at Witt, and maybe asking about him, doesn't mean there was huge return being offered. Witt, with the contract issues and all, probably has limited market value at this time.

Volchenkov is one of the better young dmen out there. Ottawa could get substantial return for him if they wanted to move him. Witt would not begin to interest them at that price, and Sutherby doesn't begin to close the gap.

I tend to agree with you that others are discounting Yonkman too much. But, not as much as you are overrating Witt.
Great points Darth...The inquiries about Witt were in the double digits of teams. Darth, look out the quality of DEFENSEMAN (thus a Leetch does not qualify-he is an OFFENSEMAN ONLY!) that were changed at the deadline. How many were the level of a Witt? None that I can think of. Premium defensemen come at a premium.

Oates was a free agent to be and it didn't phase Philly. They were looking for performance. If he had put up numbers he'd still be there today.

Darth, I think you undervalue Witt. I agree that Volchenkov is a good young d-man. He would interest me because of age and potential. He's not doing it now though. Witt is only 27 and has years ahead of him. He is a "free spirit" kind of a guy. The Caps are notorious for being poor negotiators. Witt has been underpaid. If you pair him with the right guy he could almost give you 2 #1 pairings. He WILL NOT be an offensive threat. He will take a physical toll on anybody coming his way. He is just flat out a better player than Volchenkov right now, and for the foreseeable future.

If you think Witt is less than a second pairing defenseman, you haven't seen him when he is fired up. He can be a force.

Yonkman's issue has not been talent but staying healthy. If he can stay healthy I think he'll be ok. Caps site has been hard on him. We'll see. Sutherby was injured last year. Seems to be coming back strong. Still viewed as a future team captain. The Caps some big guys down low. Cutta's performance according to JR, who is a poster who goes to the games in Portland on the Caps site: Cutta was the best d-man in Portland last year. He played well in a late season callup. In truth his arrival full-time in the NHL based on where he was drafted is about right. He was the 60th pick in the 2000 draft(a late second). He is looking like he will be a 5 or 6 for us this year. He has had a couple cups of coffee with us, but wasn't ready. We shouldn't have expected him to be. I would say something like this:

Top5 pick: Make the team first year.
6-15: Make the team after one more year of seasoning.
16-25: Make an appearance of a year. Signed and on team after 2 years.
26-40: Make the team after 3 years
41-60: Make the team team after 4 years (Cutta)

Sometimes a guy may be a little quicker, some may be a little slower. Not a definitive list but maybe useful as a guideline. The NHL is quicker skating, more powerful players, everyone a star, it takes a young guy some time for the game to "slow down."

So with Witt, I am saying he will cost to get. He will be about the best dman to get traded if he does.

Tell me, if Detroit gave up a player and a number one to get Witt do you think they would sign him? Do you think Colorado or Philly would? I have no doubt. That's why they are elite teams. They take care of their own. Being underpaid in a likley Cap environment ENHANCES your value also.


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