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Old
10-06-2011, 01:59 PM
  #51
supahdupah
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Phew, I thought we picked up this guy http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=19300

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Old
10-06-2011, 02:02 PM
  #52
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Cormier's been sent down (jets website) and I agree that he needs a good year in the AHL. McLean should play LW on the third line. Good pick up.

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10-06-2011, 02:07 PM
  #53
Holden Caulfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Would he have to clear waivers to go to the AHL? I know he's on a 2 way contract but has he met the requirements to have to clear waivers?
I really really hate NHL games for putting this in people's heads. ONE-WAY/TWO-WAY CONTRACTS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WAIVERS. NOT A SINGLE THING. This needs to be in a banner on the top of the forums I think.

Anyways, yes MacLean does have to clear waivers. PHO would not have put him on waivers otherwise, they were trying to send him down. He is in the same situation as Kulda (23 years old, 4 years since first contract was signed).

EDIT: Sorry cheswick, you did edit your post. You kinda corrected yourself, but I am going to leave my post. Maybe if I say it enough times people will start to understand. Oh and here's the breakdown for waiver eligibility...

Depending on the age as determined above, a player is waiver eligible for a certain number of years from the year in which he signed his first contract, as shown below.

Goalies----------Skaters
Age---Years-----Age---Years
18-----6*-------18-----5*
19-----5*-------19-----4*
20-----4--------20------3
21-----4--------21------3
22-----4--------22------3
23-----3--------23------3
24------2-------24------2
25+----1--------25+-----1

The other factor is games played. Once a player reaches the threshold (again based on the age at which they signed their first professional contract), they are eligible for waivers. The language of the CBA is very clear that while there are two distinct thresholds, this is an "earliest of" scenario. If a player reaches their games played mark before the reach the years mark (or vice versa), they become eligible for waivers.

Goalies Skaters
Age Games Age Games
18 80 18 160
19 80 19 160
20 80 20 160
21 60 21 80
22 60 22 70
23 60 23 60
24 60 24 60
25+ 25+


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 10-06-2011 at 02:34 PM.
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Old
10-06-2011, 02:10 PM
  #54
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waivers goes by service time for the most part.

one way and two way contracts mean zero
the only difference is for the pay cheque
two allows the team to pay you a **** can less in the AHL.

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Old
10-06-2011, 02:13 PM
  #55
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According to cap geek Maclean is an RFA with a year - two way contract paying $65,000 in the AHL and $735,000 in the NHL. I think he will have to spend the next week earning his spot on the team. If not, Cormier might be brought right back up.

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Old
10-06-2011, 02:18 PM
  #56
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Still a bit confused.

So whichever threashold a player reaches first would make them require to clear waivers correct?

But Maclean is 22. Wouldn't he only reach the 5 year threshold next season?

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10-06-2011, 02:29 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peg View Post
According to cap geek Maclean is an RFA with a year - two way contract paying $65,000 in the AHL and $735,000 in the NHL. I think he will have to spend the next week earning his spot on the team. If not, Cormier might be brought right back up.
He will get more than a week...they will not put him back on waivers in a week, as mentioned before they cannot simply send him down

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Still a bit confused.

So whichever threashold a player reaches first would make them require to clear waivers correct?

But Maclean is 22. Wouldn't he only reach the 5 year threshold next season?
Ok um, the 5 year thing is for 18 year olds (which is impossible not sure why it's even in there but oh well). He is now 22 and has played 3 years since he first signed an NHL contract. So if you look at the chart for the age 22, it says 3 years since first contract. So since he is over the limit(this being his 4th year), that means he is subject to waivers.

EDIT: Table above has been edited to become more clear.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 10-06-2011 at 02:35 PM.
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Old
10-06-2011, 02:37 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
He will get more than a week...they will not put him back on waivers in a week, as mentioned before they cannot simply send him down



Ok um, the 5 year thing is for 18 year olds (which is impossible not sure why it's even in there but oh well). He is now 22 and has played 3 years since he first signed an NHL contract. So if you look at the chart for the age 22, it says 3 years since first contract. So since he is over the limit(this being his 4th year), that means he is subject to waivers.
The way I read the chart was if you sign your first contract
at 18 its 5 years til you have to clear waivers.
At 19 its 4 years til you have to clear waivers
...
At 22 its 3 years til you have to clear waivers

So if he signed his first contract at 18 or 19 he wouldn't need to clear waivers for 5 years or 4 years from signing or at 23.

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10-06-2011, 02:42 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
The way I read the chart was if you sign your first contract
at 18 its 5 years til you have to clear waivers.
At 19 its 4 years til you have to clear waivers
...
At 22 its 3 years til you have to clear waivers

So if he signed his first contract at 18 or 19 he wouldn't need to clear waivers for 5 years or 4 years from signing or at 23.
But that is not the way the chart works. It works on your age NOW, and the years is how many years since you signed your first contract. Trust me, that is how it works. I can understand your confusion, I did the same thing at first and sometimes still make mistakes since there are many factors, (like signing at 18 and getting sent down) but that is the way it works. I agree that it is unnecessarily complicated and I think kind of a really stupid way or doing it, but that is how they do it. Think of it this way, in most cases when a ex-CHL(WHL, OHL, QMJHL) who has mostly played AHL has finished his ELC, his waiver exemption is generally over. MacLean is subject to waivers.

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Old
10-06-2011, 02:43 PM
  #60
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Man. Feeling bad for Cormier. Young kid, thought he made the team and got to be part of the 'Opening Game Day". All that excitement to look forward to.
It is a great pick up getting Maclean, but I really thought Cormier deserved a roster spot. (two way contract), might be the reason after picking up Maclean?

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Old
10-06-2011, 02:56 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue View Post
Man. Feeling bad for Cormier. Young kid, thought he made the team and got to be part of the 'Opening Game Day". All that excitement to look forward to.
It is a great pick up getting Maclean, but I really thought Cormier deserved a roster spot. (two way contract), might be the reason after picking up Maclean?
Don't feel bad, he still has a lot of learning to do and under the management in St. John's he's going to be able to tune the finer points of his game.

He'll be on the roster when he's ready.

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Old
10-06-2011, 03:03 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
But that is not the way the chart works. It works on your age NOW, and the years is how many years since you signed your first contract. Trust me, that is how it works. I can understand your confusion, I did the same thing at first and sometimes still make mistakes since there are many factors, (like signing at 18 and getting sent down) but that is the way it works. I agree that it is unnecessarily complicated and I think kind of a really stupid way or doing it, but that is how they do it. Think of it this way, in most cases when a ex-CHL(WHL, OHL, QMJHL) who has mostly played AHL has finished his ELC, his waiver exemption is generally over. MacLean is subject to waivers.
I have to disagree. The way your interpretting the chart makes no sense. An 18 year old can't have 5 years experience.

From: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...ide-to-the-nhl

Before displaying the chart is says

"Age is defined as the age of the player when he signs his entry-level contract with an NHL club. This is used to determine the thresholds for the players' waiver eligibility. The thresholds are the number of years from signing a professional contract, and the number of professional games played."

The age referenced in the chart is the age bolded above.


I was wrong and you were right on his waiver elegibility however. After the age of 20 AHL games count towards the pro totals so he is elegible for waivers based on playing eneough pro games.

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10-06-2011, 03:03 PM
  #63
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Does St. John's play a game before Sunday? Maybe he'll be able to stay until the home opener, even if he'll only be watching it from the press box instead of being on the ice.

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10-06-2011, 03:04 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
Does St. John's play a game before Sunday? Maybe he'll be able to stay until the home opener, even if he'll only be watching it from the press box instead of being on the ice.
Friday vs Providence
Saturday vs Manchester

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Old
10-06-2011, 03:11 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Would he have to clear waivers to go to the AHL? I'm pretty sure he hasn't met the game requirements to qualify for having to go onto waivers. The Coyotes just put him there to get rid of him.

I'm thinking he's going to St. Johns.
Pretty sure he's eligible based on years since first pro contract.

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Old
10-06-2011, 03:16 PM
  #66
Holden Caulfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I have to disagree. The way your interpretting the chart makes no sense. An 18 year old can't have 5 years experience.

From: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...ide-to-the-nhl

Before displaying the chart is says

"Age is defined as the age of the player when he signs his entry-level contract with an NHL club. This is used to determine the thresholds for the players' waiver eligibility. The thresholds are the number of years from signing a professional contract, and the number of professional games played."

The age referenced in the chart is the age bolded above.


I was wrong and you were right on his waiver elegibility however. After the age of 20 AHL games count towards the pro totals so he is elegible for waivers based on playing eneough pro games.
But that does make any sense either, since with 150 pro games before last season MacLean would have been subject to waivers last year as well since the 21 year old limit is 80. He was not.

Take a look at Paul Postma this year, by that definition he should have been subject to waivers since he has played 133 pro games at age 22, when the limit is 70 for 22 year olds.

EDIT: Wikipedia has the best explanation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_salary_cap

You are right about the table. I was wrong, but my way of reading the table still worked I guess. That site is wrong about the "pro games", it is in fact NHL games.

MacLean signed his first contract (or played using it it might a better way to explain it) when he was 20 and has completed the 3 seasons (10-11, 09-10, 08-09).


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 10-06-2011 at 03:23 PM.
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Old
10-06-2011, 03:35 PM
  #67
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Geeze. It seems eitehr site is only explainign half the story.


Page 66 on the offical CBA covers waivers:
http://www.capgeek.com/NHL_NHLPA_2005_CBA.pdf

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10-06-2011, 03:43 PM
  #68
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waiver stuff aside, I am stoked the Jets picked him up. Looking forward to seeing what Mac can do on a scoring line.

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10-06-2011, 03:54 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Geeze. It seems eitehr site is only explainign half the story.


Page 66 on the offical CBA covers waivers:
http://www.capgeek.com/NHL_NHLPA_2005_CBA.pdf
Yah that looks good. I think much of the confusion comes from his late birthday. I think that this is considered his 23 year old year since he turns 23 before the end of the calendar year. Basically for a CHL player who signs a contract out of junior foregoing his overage year (which is fairly standard) they have 3 seasons exempt.

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10-06-2011, 04:01 PM
  #70
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Really happy about it, surprised he even fell to the Jets.

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10-06-2011, 04:15 PM
  #71
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any relationship to Paul Maclean?

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10-06-2011, 04:19 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
any relationship to Paul Maclean?
Not according to Wikipedia.

Something I did find interesting on Wikipedia though:

Quote:
NHL team: Winnipeg Jets
Former teams: Phoenix Coyotes
I never thought I'd see that lol.

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10-06-2011, 05:18 PM
  #73
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We need scoring so I am happy with this move.

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10-06-2011, 05:48 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I need a CBA expert, but I am 99% that this is not entirely accurate. Ok, yes he can be placed back on waivers and sent down, for sure. But let's say in a month WPG puts him back on waivers and PHO, SJS, and WSH all put in a claim (just throwing teams out there). Now it would he would naturally go to the team who is the lowest, in this case let's say it's Phoenix. However, since both SJS and WSH put in claims as well, PHO cannot reassign him to AHL without first offering him to the teams who also put in a claim. If PHO is the only team to put in a claim, then yes they would be free to reassign him down without having to clear waivers again.
You're mixing two different clauses here. You have it right about PHO having to be the only team making a claim to be able send him down to the AHL without being subjected to waivers again. However the restriction that players claimed on waivers have to be first offered to the other teams that put in claims only applies if the claiming team wishes to trade the player, not if they want to assign the player to the AHL.

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10-06-2011, 06:14 PM
  #75
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You're mixing two different clauses here. You have it right about PHO having to be the only team making a claim to be able send him down to the AHL without being subjected to waivers again. However the restriction that players claimed on waivers have to be first offered to the other teams that put in claims only applies if the claiming team wishes to trade the player, not if they want to assign the player to the AHL.
Ok. So let's say that in two weeks the Jets do not want him. They place him back on waivers. PHO ends up claiming him however one team with a lower priority also puts a claim in. PHO gets him back, but they must have him clear waivers again to send him down?

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