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Armstrong and Muckler talking?

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Old
12-05-2003, 05:10 AM
  #1
The Lehner
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Armstrong and Muckler talking?

According to the Ottawa Sun the Dallas GM has been in attendance at both Sens games this week in Florida and Tampa Bay. Could they be talking trade?

What would the Stars want from the Sens - I presume a defenseman like Rachunek? I'm just curious what your thoughts are...has anybody heard anything from the Dallas end?


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Old
12-05-2003, 05:22 AM
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I know personally, I'd love to see Armstrong pull off a trade for Havlat, so long as it doesnt cost us Morrow.

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Old
12-05-2003, 01:41 PM
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Dallasman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsfan09
I know personally, I'd love to see Armstrong pull off a trade for Havlat, so long as it doesnt cost us Morrow.
I got news for ya, if we want Havlat, we WILL hafta give up Morrow...

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12-05-2003, 08:47 PM
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Maybe Armstrong is interested in Chara. He is big, tall and he can hit can't he? Anyone who is big and can knock the other teams guys from out in front of our net we would be willing to welcome to Dallas.

As far as a Dallas/Ottawa trade goes, I could see that happening but Dallas could use more than just defense. Right now our offense is just plain poor.

How about Rachunek a decent prospect and Havlat for Modano and Erksine? Modano has worn out his usefulness here. Trade him now before he goes to Detroit to play out the rest of his years.

One more thing, if Detroit is playing this well now without Hatcher, just imagine how they might fare when he returns. Could be the NHL version of the Lakers. (shutter) Scary thought. I hate me a Redwing.

HaB

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12-05-2003, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angered Hab
Maybe Armstrong is interested in Chara. He is big, tall and he can hit can't he? Anyone who is big and can knock the other teams guys from out in front of our net we would be willing to welcome to Dallas.

As far as a Dallas/Ottawa trade goes, I could see that happening but Dallas could use more than just defense. Right now our offense is just plain poor.

How about Rachunek a decent prospect and Havlat for Modano and Erksine? Modano has worn out his usefulness here. Trade him now before he goes to Detroit to play out the rest of his years.

One more thing, if Detroit is playing this well now without Hatcher, just imagine how they might fare when he returns. Could be the NHL version of the Lakers. (shutter) Scary thought. I hate me a Redwing.

HaB
NO trades of big magnitude will occur from a sens standpoint. Most likely the Stars are looking at Pothier (he's been getting more ice time recently) and will give a 2nd perhaps or Vagner.

Modano is the Stars team. If they were to trade Modano, they may as well go completely into rebuild mode and not remain around 500. That deal woud make 0 sense for either team. If your going to do a Modano deal, it would be Bonk + Rachunek (+ Leschyshyn to even out the salaries) and even then it doesn't make sense for Dallas and questionably so for Ottawa.

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12-05-2003, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
NO trades of big magnitude will occur from a sens standpoint. Most likely the Stars are looking at Pothier (he's been getting more ice time recently) and will give a 2nd perhaps or Vagner.
Pothier wouldn't get himself a 2nd, much less Vagner. Look more for a 4th at best.

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12-05-2003, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
Pothier wouldn't get himself a 2nd, much less Vagner. Look more for a 4th at best.
I agree that Pothier's actual value isn't that of a 2nd, but that's what Ottawa would be asking. Considering that a 2nd isn't such a steep price to pay, I could see Dallas doing the deal just to add much needed depth. Vagner is a bust at this point. He is a sieve defensively and doesn't have much of a shot at becoming an NHL defenseman. Pothier can play in the NHL - Vagner most likely never will. I think those are pretty fair exchanges.

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12-06-2003, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Vagner is a bust at this point. He is a sieve defensively and doesn't have much of a shot at becoming an NHL defenseman. Pothier can play in the NHL - Vagner most likely never will.
Right, because we know the Stars have the same opinion as a fan of another team.

You overrate Pothier and underrate Vagner.

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12-07-2003, 07:36 AM
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I could see a deal for Pothier (or Hnidy) for mid-round pick (3rd to 5th round) in the works. But Dallas doesn't really have the "attainbable" assests we would be looking for. Morrow would be great, but he will cost too much, etc...

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12-08-2003, 05:48 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by GLUhipfan
Right, because we know the Stars have the same opinion as a fan of another team.

You overrate Pothier and underrate Vagner.

I agree with you GLUhipfan, they underrate Vagner. Let me tell you one thing, whoever gets Vagner will be a winner and he will definitely make the NHL, have anyone ever seen him play - I do all the time. His presence on the ice is noticeable, believe me!!!!!

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Old
12-08-2003, 06:05 AM
  #11
OttMorrow
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Players I'd be interested in:
Volchenkov
Rachunek
Havlat
Hossa(not going to happen)
Chara

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12-08-2003, 10:23 AM
  #12
Egil
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Volchenkov Morrow
Rachunek Morrow
Havlat Morrow +
Hossa(not going to happen) Morrow +++++
Chara Morrow +++

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Old
12-08-2003, 10:45 AM
  #13
Fantasywonder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
Volchenkov Morrow
Rachunek Morrow
Havlat Morrow +
Hossa(not going to happen) Morrow +++++
Chara Morrow +++
Sure thing sweety..

Morrow for Volchenkov ++
Morrow for Rachunek ++
Morrow for Havlat +
Morrow +++ for Hossa
Morrow for Chara

Morrow holds a whole lot more value then you think, potential 1st (LW) line powerforwards that play a two-way game are probably one of the rarest breeds in the league. See his potential as Ryan Smyth and you know what I am talking about.

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Old
12-08-2003, 10:57 AM
  #14
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
Sure thing sweety..

Morrow for Volchenkov ++
Morrow for Rachunek ++
Morrow for Havlat +
Morrow +++ for Hossa
Morrow for Chara

Morrow holds a whole lot more value then you think, potential 1st (LW) line powerforwards that play a two-way game are probably one of the rarest breeds in the league. See his potential as Ryan Smyth and you know what I am talking about.
Speaking of rare breeds... Chara is probably the rarest breed of them all. How many defesenam over 6"6 are there who score 35-40 points a year? A physically dominant and imposing defenseman who has a very good offensive game is far rarer, than 20 goal scoring LWs (Erik Cole is another example who comes to mind). Hmm, Mark Bell also comes to mind. Brenden Morrow is 24 and still has yet to crack the 50 point mark. To me that doesn't exactly speak of Ryan Smyth. In fact, Mike Fisher's numbers have been quite similar to Brendan Morrow's numbers if you look at their numbers when they were each 20 and 21. Are you telling me that Mike Fisher (if he were healthy) would be able to command a player like Ladislav Nagy????

Morrow is a 24 year old 40 point player - how valuable does that make him???

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12-08-2003, 11:21 AM
  #15
Fantasywonder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Speaking of rare breeds... Chara is probably the rarest breed of them all. How many defesenam over 6"6 are there who score 35-40 points a year? A physically dominant and imposing defenseman who has a very good offensive game is far rarer, than 20 goal scoring LWs (Erik Cole is another example who comes to mind). Hmm, Mark Bell also comes to mind. Brenden Morrow is 24 and still has yet to crack the 50 point mark. To me that doesn't exactly speak of Ryan Smyth. In fact, Mike Fisher's numbers have been quite similar to Brendan Morrow's numbers if you look at their numbers when they were each 20 and 21. Are you telling me that Mike Fisher (if he were healthy) would be able to command a player like Ladislav Nagy????

Morrow is a 24 year old 40 point player - how valuable does that make him???
Morrow is a 24 year old winger who has played on the checking units his entire career, earning his way through with a hard bang and crash style, recording multipile 20+ goal seasons and earning a second consecutive spot in the Selke race as a top 25 candidate. He was on pace for 50 last season, and this year it's the first time in his career he has the oppertunity to play on a scoring line and actually see some very rare pp minutes. Scoring 20+ goals and being a 40 point "all you wish" forward from a checking line, playing a shutdown role, that's amazing, especially when you consider his age, and centers (rookie Niko Kapanen). This season, he easily would have recorded around 50/60 points and maybe even as much as 30 goals if the team would stink so badly. He's been their best player for the entire season and if they had an MVP, it's Morrow. Also, how many players like him, that young, do you know that already have the honour of wearing an "A"? That's right.. Morrow is future Captain material. To say he and Smyth are nothing a like is plain ignorance, the simularities between him and Smyth are scary, even Oiler fans admitted that they would swap both straight up as they know what Morrow brings to the table, he's a playoff warrior.

Eric Cole? He's 25, injury prone, not as good defensively and not nearly as physical. Not wearing an A on a lesser experienced team and has played on a scoring line his entire career (Canes 2nd line, former BBC unit).

Mark Bell you say? You mean the 23 year old forward who has played with 2 offensive players his entire career and has yet to break the 30 point mark? That one?

I think Morrow holds more value then Martin Havlat, because:

- Much better leader
- Much better all-round player
- Much more physical
- Playoff warrior
- Not a hold-out

And while he has less offensive upside, Morrow's remaining intangibles more then make up for his eventual upside, which is a 30/30 forward.

Martin Havlat can't play LW if his life was depending on it, at 22 years of age he has already been a hold out and seems to get a little bit injury prone himself, missing 9, 10 and 15 games in his first season and has currently missed 6 games already. He has played an offensive role for a very offensive minded team and has yet to record 25 goals or show anything more then being a 50 point scoring forward with the upside for more. Yes he's skilled, yes he has more offensive upside, but the huge differences in all the other aspects makes Morrow's value quite a bit higher.

And please, do not talk about Mike Fisher being equal to Morrow. Fisher, while a very quality player himself is very, very prone and isn't as physical nor as intimidating as Morrow. He also does not has the offensive upside to compete for a top line spot.. You can view him as a poor man's Morrow, but he certainly isn't one.

Chara, I am not too fond of, wouldn't want him personally.

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Old
12-08-2003, 12:11 PM
  #16
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
And please, do not talk about Mike Fisher being equal to Morrow. Fisher, while a very quality player himself is very, very prone and isn't as physical nor as intimidating as Morrow. He also does not has the offensive upside to compete for a top line spot.. You can view him as a poor man's Morrow, but he certainly isn't one.

Chara, I am not too fond of, wouldn't want him personally.
Mike Fisher is the most physical player on the sens. He is just as physical as Morrow, though not intimidating. His offensive production has been very similar to Morrow's playing while also playing on the 3rd line (at best). If you ignore the health issues - Mike Fisher's value should be very close to Morrow's.

Havlat can't play LW? Maybe, maybe not but his offensive ability is head and shoulders above Morrow's. Morrow is 24 and has yet to crack the 50 point mark. Nor is he on pace to crack the 50 point mark this season. Havlat has had significant improvement every season he's been in the league and he's still only 22.

Playoff warrior? Maybe he is a warrior but 5-17-22 43 career playoff games (3-8-11 in has last 22) is not very impressive. Havlat's by comparison Havlat already has 7-11-18 in 34 GP, which is just as good, while being two years younger.

Some PPG numbers:

Havlat: .57, .69, .88, .83
Morrow:.52, .53, .49, .61, .61

I think that easily shows how superior of an offensive talent Havlat is.

You wouldn't want Chara??? ROTFLMAO!!!!! Are you insane?

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Old
12-08-2003, 01:45 PM
  #17
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You know, I'd take Chara in a heartbeat if the right deal came along. The guy can replace a Derian Hatcher and be that Big D-man we need. I mean, if he scores 35-40 points as was said above, that be great. He would be better then Hatcher was statistically was for us in the points department. He could also replace him the physicallity department if need be.

Would that mean giving up Morrow?? Most likely. Would I want to do that? For me, no. Morrow is gonna be a good leader and we need that around the dressing room, right now especially.

Another guy that I would want from Ottawa would be Havlat. He has more offensive upside then Morrow, but would it be a one-for-one deal if a deal like that was to go down? Who knows??

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