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12-05-2003, 09:35 PM
  #1
Volchenkov
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Dallas Trade Possibilities

Seems like Dallas is interested in someone on Ottawa's roster and a trade could happen sometime in the near future. Here are some theoretical possibilities that I think could theoretically happen:

Lehtinen will be the one coming to Ottawa, possibly for a package including Pothier, Shastlivy and picks/prospects. With Morrow, the Stars have a young defensive specialist which could theoretically make Lehtinen expendable, given that he's 30 years old. An outside possibilty could be a deal revolving around Rachunek/Lehtinen.

The odds-on most likely occurence will be Pothier for a pick or minor prospect (Vagner?).

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12-05-2003, 10:25 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Seems like Dallas is interested in someone on Ottawa's roster and a trade could happen sometime in the near future. Here are some theoretical possibilities that I think could theoretically happen:

Lehtinen will be the one coming to Ottawa, possibly for a package including Pothier, Shastlivy and picks/prospects. With Morrow, the Stars have a young defensive specialist which could theoretically make Lehtinen expendable, given that he's 30 years old. An outside possibilty could be a deal revolving around Rachunek/Lehtinen.

The odds-on most likely occurence will be Pothier for a pick or minor prospect (Vagner?).
Outsider here, but your trade is plain laughable.

Lehtinen is the Stars best player and MVP and according to most of their fans, he is a better player then Mike Modano for a good 5 years now. You want him for an AHL defenseman, the most injury prone player in the NHL and a pick or prospect? I'm sorry, you can't fetch a MVP for that crap. Start questioning what Modano would cost you, substract 60% of his salary and 3 years of age, and you have Lehtinen's value. I think he's the Stars most untouchable player and arguably among the top untouchable's in the league as well, as he is so grossly underpaid that you have to overpay to get him. Not like it would matter anyways as Lehtinen wouldn't leave Dallas ever. Lehtinen carries more market value then your best player, he's better then Alfredsson and provides a greater value then Hossa. And I bet my left nut on it that the Stars wouldn't even deal him for Hossa. This is exactly why Jere is so darn underrated.

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12-05-2003, 10:27 PM
  #3
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Pierre Turgeon is the player the Stars are trying to dump. They can dump him somewhere else, because the last thing we need is another centre.

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12-05-2003, 10:36 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
Outsider here, but your trade is plain laughable.

Lehtinen is the Stars best player and MVP and according to most of their fans, he is a better player then Mike Modano for a good 5 years now. You want him for an AHL defenseman, the most injury prone player in the NHL and a pick or prospect? I'm sorry, you can't fetch a MVP for that crap. Start questioning what Modano would cost you, substract 60% of his salary and 3 years of age, and you have Lehtinen's value. I think he's the Stars most untouchable player and arguably among the top untouchable's in the league as well, as he is so grossly underpaid that you have to overpay to get him. Not like it would matter anyways as Lehtinen wouldn't leave Dallas ever. Lehtinen carries more market value then your best player, he's better then Alfredsson and provides a greater value then Hossa. And I bet my left nut on it that the Stars wouldn't even deal him for Hossa. This is exactly why Jere is so darn underrated.
The stars wouldn't trade Lehtinen for Hossa???????

*IF* the Stars are planning on rebuilding - which is a possibilty - then it is possible they will start unloading some of their players who won't be as good 4 years down the road - i.e. Lehtinen. The Stars are obviously interested in SOMEONE and they know the sens aren't going to trade any key players - thus odds are the Stars consider Pothier to be an NHL calibre defenseman as he is the only logical player they would want. Now, taking the premise that the Stars wish to go into rebuilding and are interested in Pothier, they get a young LW with upside (debateable value) + a package of picks and/or prospects. For example, Vermette has the potential to become a Jere Lehtinen and could be a part of a Jere Lehtinen deal. Modano is one of the top 15 players in the NHL - Lehtinen is nowhere near Modano in terms of Value.

I don't think its liekly that they'll trade Lehtinen as is readily apparent by my statement that the odds-on most likely thing to happen will be Pothier for a 2nd or Vagner.

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12-05-2003, 10:55 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
The stars wouldn't trade Lehtinen for Hossa???????

*IF* the Stars are planning on rebuilding - which is a possibilty - then it is possible they will start unloading some of their players who won't be as good 4 years down the road - i.e. Lehtinen.
The Stars won't rebuild, they arguably have a top 2 team in terms of depth. They've been struggling lately, but so have your Sens. It's all a matter of time. I can't see them rebuilding. And even if they would, they would start build a whole new core around noone less then Jere Lehtinen (and Mike Modano, he'll retire a Star).

Trading him wouldn't make sense, he turned 30 only a few months ago and has a fair bunch of good years left. He's easily in the mids of his prime. He makes 2.5 million, and this includes another 4 year extension for the same amount signed this summer.

No, the Stars wouldn't trade him, not for Hossa nor for Scastlivy, Pothier and picks. He's the kinda guy you always love to have, he will always be of good use, he's a franchise player that you can build your team around or you can use him in a complimentary role on a team stakced with talent already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
The Stars are obviously interested in SOMEONE and they know the sens aren't going to trade any key players - thus odds are the Stars consider Pothier to be an NHL calibre defenseman as he is the only logical player they would want. Now, taking the premise that the Stars wish to go into rebuilding and are interested in Pothier, they get a young LW with upside (debateable value) + a package of picks and/or prospects. For example, Vermette has the potential to become a Jere Lehtinen and could be a part of a Jere Lehtinen deal. Modano is one of the top 15 players in the NHL - Lehtinen is nowhere near Modano in terms of Value.
Iew, first of all, in the games I've seen, Pothier wouldn't crack their lineup. This guy Erskien is a monster and Trevor Daly is a stud that's their best and most important prospect. That would make him sit somewhere between Erskien/Daly and Don Sweeney as a #7/#8.

Dude, Lehtinen is better then Modano. About 80% of the Stars fanbase, management, (former) teammates, anylists, media, you name it, and they will all tell you that Lehtinen provides a greater value then Mike. Lehtinen was THN most complete player in the game, they had him ranked as a top 25 player in general, a top 10 winger and a top 5 right winger in their latest magazine. He finally starts to get some credit, now its the fans from other teams who still have to see this, but likely they never will. Vermette has nowhere near the talent and skillset to be a franchise player like Lehtinen, take off your homer goggle's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
I don't think its liekly that they'll trade Lehtinen as is readily apparent by my statement that the odds-on most likely thing to happen will be Pothier for a 2nd or Vagner.
Pothier wouldn't fetch a 2nd. God, a 5th, maybe a 4th at best is what you should be aiming for. You won't get him for the Stars 2002 first round dp.

My advice in general, try watching Lehtinen on a consistant base, maybe you'll learn to appreciate him a little more. I know I have.

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12-05-2003, 11:03 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
The Stars won't rebuild, they arguably have a top 2 team in terms of depth. They've been struggling lately, but so have your Sens. It's all a matter of time. I can't see them rebuilding. And even if they would, they would start build a whole new core around noone less then Jere Lehtinen (and Mike Modano, he'll retire a Star).

Trading him wouldn't make sense, he turned 30 only a few months ago and has a fair bunch of good years left. He's easily in the mids of his prime. He makes 2.5 million, and this includes another 4 year extension for the same amount signed this summer.

No, the Stars wouldn't trade him, not for Hossa nor for Scastlivy, Pothier and picks. He's the kinda guy you always love to have, he will always be of good use, he's a franchise player that you can build your team around or you can use him in a complimentary role on a team stakced with talent already.



Iew, first of all, in the games I've seen, Pothier wouldn't crack their lineup. This guy Erskien is a monster and Trevor Daly is a stud that's their best and most important prospect. That would make him sit somewhere between Erskien/Daly and Don Sweeney as a #7/#8.

Dude, Lehtinen is better then Modano. About 80% of the Stars fanbase, management, (former) teammates, anylists, media, you name it, and they will all tell you that Lehtinen provides a greater value then Mike. Lehtinen was THN most complete player in the game, they had him ranked as a top 25 player in general, a top 10 winger and a top 5 right winger in their latest magazine. He finally starts to get some credit, now its the fans from other teams who still have to see this, but likely they never will. Vermette has nowhere near the talent and skillset to be a franchise player like Lehtinen, take off your homer goggle's.



Pothier wouldn't fetch a 2nd. God, a 5th, maybe a 4th at best is what you should be aiming for. You won't get him for the Stars 2002 first round dp.

My advice in general, try watching Lehtinen on a consistant base, maybe you'll learn to appreciate him a little more. I know I have.
Homer goggles... Lehtinen is more valuable than Hossa... I never said that Vermette will be a franchis player - what I said is that he's a similar player to Lehtinen, who is 10 years younger and IF the stars were rebuilding *could* be used as a package to get Lehtinen.

I'm not going to debate where Pothier will end up on Dallas' depth chart. The sens aren't trading Havlat or any other player who was on last year's playoff roster other than Van Allen. Thus the only possibility really is Pothier - who else is it that they are scouting?? If the Stars GMs think that Pothier can help them I don't think that a measley 2nd is such a huge price.

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12-05-2003, 11:18 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Homer goggles... Lehtinen is more valuable than Hossa... I never said that Vermette will be a franchis player - what I said is that he's a similar player to Lehtinen, who is 10 years younger and IF the stars were rebuilding *could* be used as a package to get Lehtinen.

I'm not going to debate where Pothier will end up on Dallas' depth chart. The sens aren't trading Havlat or any other player who was on last year's playoff roster other than Van Allen. Thus the only possibility really is Pothier - who else is it that they are scouting?? If the Stars GMs think that Pothier can help them I don't think that a measley 2nd is such a huge price.
Ok, I apologize for the homer comment but as an outside fan who has followed the Stars (during their Hull era) I am pretty tired why Lehtinen gets so few credit amoung fans leaguewide. Here's an interesting fact received from a friend of mine who happens to be a Stars fan:

The Stars without Jere Lehtinen: 31 - 44 - 19 - 4 (winning % of .413)
The Stars without Mike Modano : 22 - 14 - 8 - 2 (winning % of .611)

The Stars without Jere this season: 5 - 9 - 2 (winning % of .357)

This is why. Jere Lehtinen scored 31 goals last season, leading the team in goals and still be able to dominate the Selke race. That's as complete as complete can get. He has no flaws in his game, someone compared his style and value he provides for a team with Nicklas Lidstrom and that's pretty darn on the money if you ask me.

A 2nd round pick for a defenseman that will never amount into anyhthing more then a last pairing defenseman is a steep price. Simular defensemen in Fergeson, Robidas, Baumgartner all went for a mid to low end picks (4th, 6th and 5th).

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12-05-2003, 11:29 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
Ok, I apologize for the homer comment but as an outside fan who has followed the Stars (during their Hull era) I am pretty tired why Lehtinen gets so few credit amoung fans leaguewide. Here's an interesting fact received from a friend of mine who happens to be a Stars fan:

The Stars without Jere Lehtinen: 31 - 44 - 19 - 4 (winning % of .413)
The Stars without Mike Modano : 22 - 14 - 8 - 2 (winning % of .611)

The Stars without Jere this season: 5 - 9 - 2 (winning % of .357)

This is why. Jere Lehtinen scored 31 goals last season, leading the team in goals and still be able to dominate the Selke race. That's as complete as complete can get. He has no flaws in his game, someone compared his style and value he provides for a team with Nicklas Lidstrom and that's pretty darn on the money if you ask me.

A 2nd round pick for a defenseman that will never amount into anyhthing more then a last pairing defenseman is a steep price. Simular defensemen in Fergeson, Robidas, Baumgartner all went for a mid to low end picks (4th, 6th and 5th).
In all fairness, Lehtinen isn't a 30 goals scorer as much as Todd White is a legit 20 goal scorer. Lehtinen is a 20 G scorer. Lidstrom is the 2nd best offensive defenseman in the league as well as one of the best defensively. Lehtinen can't be compared to Lidstrom. A better comparison would be perhaps Adam Foote - an above average contributor offensively who is dominant defensively. My proposal (thi is a poor excuse - I should have done my research) was based on the assumption that he was going to be a FA soon and would command a hefty price one he went UFA (due to his high value). Suffice it to say - we both don't think its likely, so we may as well end that part of the discussion here.

As for Pothier - I don't see the see the sens trading him for anything less than a 2nd and Pothier is the only player that Dallas could be scouting. Thus that would be the only possibility IMO, even if strictly value-wise it isn't fair. Furthermore ATL just traded away an early second last year for Ivan Majesky - pretty much a 3rd pairing defenseman. I don't think a 2nd for a depth defenseman is such a huge stretch.

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12-05-2003, 11:33 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Volchenkov
In all fairness, Lehtinen isn't a 30 goals scorer as much as Todd White is a legit 20 goal scorer. Lehtinen is a 20 G scorer. Lidstrom is the 2nd best offensive defenseman in the league as well as one of the best defensively. Lehtinen can't be compared to Lidstrom. A better comparison would be perhaps Adam Foote - an above average contributor offensively who is dominant defensively. My proposal (thi is a poor excuse - I should have done my research) was based on the assumption that he was going to be a FA soon and would command a hefty price one he went UFA (due to his high value). Suffice it to say - we both don't think its likely, so we may as well end that part of the discussion here.

As for Pothier - I don't see the see the sens trading him for anything less than a 2nd and Pothier is the only player that Dallas could be scouting. Thus that would be the only possibility IMO, even if strictly value-wise it isn't fair. Furthermore ATL just traded away an early second last year for Ivan Majesky - pretty much a 3rd pairing defenseman. I don't think a 2nd for a depth defenseman is such a huge stretch.
I am talking about styles. Lehtinen plays a near flawless game, is a quite warrior and as consistant as possible. That's alot like Lidstrom, and this comparison came from a Wing fan so go figure.

I think the value of high draft picks for an aging franchise like Dallas is seemingly higher then the ones of say the Senators. The Stars can't affort to trade a 2nd for a mere depth defenseman. One who in all likelyhood wouldn't see more time then he did on the Sens.

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12-05-2003, 11:39 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
I am talking about styles. Lehtinen plays a near flawless game, is a quite warrior and as consistant as possible. That's alot like Lidstrom, and this comparison came from a Wing fan so go figure.

I think the value of high draft picks for an aging franchise like Dallas is seemingly higher then the ones of say the Senators. The Stars can't affort to trade a 2nd for a mere depth defenseman. One who in all likelyhood wouldn't see more time then he did on the Sens.
I think Foote is a better comparison or perhaps Redden. Lidstrom is far more valuable than Lehtinen, so I don't think its a fair comparison.

As for the Pothier discussion - to refrain from going around in circles, I'll ask you this: Who IYO are the Stars looking to trade for and why?

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12-06-2003, 12:16 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Volchenkov
I think Foote is a better comparison or perhaps Redden. Lidstrom is far more valuable than Lehtinen, so I don't think its a fair comparison.
Foote can't contribute offensively. Jere is a poor man's Lidstrom playing a different position. That was the exact quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
As for the Pothier discussion - to refrain from going around in circles, I'll ask you this: Who IYO are the Stars looking to trade for and why?
I am not a Stars fan, I honestly have no idea. You would think Havlat but he would fall behind Lehtinen and Guerin as well. I think they scouted some games, talked with Muckler and such trying to find out if Havlat would and could be able to play LW. Apparently not, so I don't think a trade will be likely. It was more or less an every day routine for the Stars GM but got blown out of proportion. Inquiering never hurts, but it happens every day and on nearly neither day a trade actually happens.

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12-06-2003, 12:21 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder

I am not a Stars fan, I honestly have no idea. You would think Havlat but he would fall behind Lehtinen and Guerin as well. I think they scouted some games, talked with Muckler and such trying to find out if Havlat would and could be able to play LW. Apparently not, so I don't think a trade will be likely. It was more or less an every day routine for the Stars GM but got blown out of proportion. Inquiering never hurts, but it happens every day and on nearly neither day a trade actually happens.
The problem with that theory is that there is absolutely no reason why the sens would trade Havlat, which tells me that it has to be Pothier with outside possibilities being Schaefer, Varada, Prusek and White. The only player I see being possibly moved is Varada - but I have no idea who the Stars would give back. Thus the conclusion I reached is that it has to be Pothier. The price? IMO a 2nd (from Ottawa's standpoint) or if that's too much than Martin Vagner or a similar prospect.

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12-06-2003, 12:30 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Seems like Dallas is interested in someone on Ottawa's roster and a trade could happen sometime in the near future. Here are some theoretical possibilities that I think could theoretically happen:

Lehtinen will be the one coming to Ottawa, possibly for a package including Pothier, Shastlivy and picks/prospects. With Morrow, the Stars have a young defensive specialist which could theoretically make Lehtinen expendable, given that he's 30 years old. An outside possibilty could be a deal revolving around Rachunek/Lehtinen.

The odds-on most likely occurence will be Pothier for a pick or minor prospect (Vagner?).

I don't believe Lehtinen can be had for that price - it'd be a dream, but it isn't going to happen. I think Morrow is a better target. If they turn round and say Havlat... boy there is a thinker and a half.

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12-06-2003, 12:30 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
The problem with that theory is that there is absolutely no reason why the sens would trade Havlat, which tells me that it has to be Pothier with outside possibilities being Schaefer, Varada, Prusek and White. The only player I see being possibly moved is Varada - but I have no idea who the Stars would give back. Thus the conclusion I reached is that it has to be Pothier. The price? IMO a 2nd (from Ottawa's standpoint) or if that's too much than Martin Vagner or a similar prospect.
Why Pothier? Thats like the Sens trading for Don Sweeney.

The Stars are well stacked at every position and it takes a fairly skilled player whos a significant upgrade over the one who he has to outperform and compete with. Schaefer, Varada and White would not be needed and the Stars wouldn't trade for either of them as neither is a significant upgrade over the ones currently playing those positions (Schaefer plays 3rd line wing, no use with Barnes there. Varada, the Stars have his matured and developed version in Rob DiMaio and have a young fine future Tucker in Steve Ott, no need for another pest. White, same as Pierre Turgeon has played solid hockey so far).

These two teams would be bad trading partners, the only deal I can come up with would be a deal based around Morrow and Havlat. But in every Stars game I've seen so far, Brendan Morrow was their best player. So as I don't think they'll trade him, not even for Havlat, it would be the best scenario with the most sense to it.

BTW Vagner is worth more then a 2nd round pick. He was the Stars first round pick in 2001 and has recently fully recovered from several injuries. His game is improving rapidly and he's showing that he woudn't have looked out of place as a top 10 pick like he was projected to become.

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12-06-2003, 12:31 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
The Stars won't rebuild, they arguably have a top 2 team in terms of depth.
Your entire discussion aside(I do agree that Pothier, Schastlivy and a pick for Lehtinen is ridiculous), how do you figure Dallas to be top two in depth? You do know we're not talking about the Mavericks, right? Guerin can't score on the road and after that Arnott is #2 in scoring....

Please explain your thoughts on Dallas having more depth "as a team" than:

(in no particular) Ottawa, NJ, Colorado, St Louis, Vancouver, Detroit, Philly or ....hell, even the Rangers on paper(since this will have to be the crux of your argument). If Dallas weren't in such a weak division this year they'd be even worse off than they are now. Good thing the Kings are always injured.

There's a lot of guys on Dallas whose best years are behind them(ie Modano, Turgeon, Young, Barnes). The D is porous and Turco had 1 good regular season.

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12-06-2003, 12:34 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
Why Pothier? Thats like the Sens trading for Don Sweeney.

The Stars are well stacked at every position and it takes a fairly skilled player whos a significant upgrade over the one who he has to outperform and compete with. Schaefer, Varada and White would not be needed and the Stars wouldn't trade for either of them as neither is a significant upgrade over the ones currently playing those positions (Schaefer plays 3rd line wing, no use with Barnes there. Varada, the Stars have his matured and developed version in Rob DiMaio and have a young fine future Tucker in Steve Ott, no need for another pest. White, same as Pierre Turgeon has played solid hockey so far).

These two teams would be bad trading partners, the only deal I can come up with would be a deal based around Morrow and Havlat. But in every Stars game I've seen so far, Brendan Morrow was their best player. So as I don't think they'll trade him, not even for Havlat, it would be the best scenario with the most sense to it.

BTW Vagner is worth more then a 2nd round pick. He was the Stars first round pick in 2001 and has recently fully recovered from several injuries. His game is improving rapidly and he's showing that he woudn't have looked out of place as a top 10 pick like he was projected to become.
Dunno. Pothier seems the only candidate likley to be traded from the sens lineup. No one else is really available.

As for Vagner - he was a defensive sieve in the CHL and isn't physical in the least. His upside is that of Tom Poti and his downside is that of a career NHLer. Vagner will be lucky if he makes the NHL, while Pothier is already an NHLer.

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12-06-2003, 12:47 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by HF2002
Your entire discussion aside(I do agree that Pothier, Schastlivy and a pick for Lehtinen is ridiculous), how do you figure Dallas to be top two in depth? You do know we're not talking about the Mavericks, right? Guerin can't score on the road and after that Arnott is #2 in scoring....

Please explain your thoughts on Dallas having more depth "as a team" than:

(in no particular) Ottawa, NJ, Colorado, St Louis, Vancouver, Detroit, Philly or ....hell, even the Rangers on paper(since this will have to be the crux of your argument). If Dallas weren't in such a weak division this year they'd be even worse off than they are now. Good thing the Kings are always injured.

There's a lot of guys on Dallas whose best years are behind them(ie Modano, Turgeon, Young, Barnes). The D is porous and Turco had 1 good regular season.
You Guerin excuse for not scoring on the road is irrelevant. Arnott as the 2nd leading scorer what's wrong with that

Modano's best years are behind him, what are you smokin, he always starts like this. Barnes, he's been their best player in the first 2 months, again, you aren't making a lot of sense. And Young has been struggling and not attending some games due to a death in his family. He scored 23 goals last season, yeah he's done. And finally Turgeon, mighty fine skilled player that dazzles his skills around sometimes, one of their best players that is slowly getting more confidence from Dave Tippet. He has slown down though, but he's far from over the hill or useless. With more icetime and better linemates, 60-70 points would still be very reasonable.

The Stars have a supurb depth, and I don't even like to admit so.

Pierre Turgeon - Mike Modano - Scott Young
Brendan Morrow - Jason Arnott - Bill Guerin
Anti Mietinen - Nico Kapanen - Jere Lehtinen
Steve Ott - Stu Barnes - Rob DiMaio

That's an utterly solid forward pack with as far as I can see, no lacks. Lots of grit and powerforwards, nearly all are defensive responsible and a fair bunch of talent and roleplayers.

Sergei Zubov - Teppo Numminen
Richard Matvichuk - Philippe Boucher
Jon Klemm - John Erskien/Trevor Daly

Again, I count five top 4 defensemen, one rugged and future heavyweight in Erskien and their best prospect in Daly. Aweful depth indeed, horrible. Granted their best defenseman is out (Boucher) but they'll survive.

This team has everything what it takes to win a Stanley Cup, probably even more so then the Ottawa Senators. But their slow start makes a lot of people wondering their true abilities and such. But as far as i can remember, the Stars always have been horrible starters.

Have it your own way though, I couldn't care less what you think about the Stars or their players, but as I've noticed with the Wings and also Leafs, people love to trash teams who aren't playing like they should. Resulting in overrated players, over the hill veterans, etc, etc..

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12-06-2003, 01:15 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
You Guerin excuse for not scoring on the road is irrelevant.
It's not in the least bit relevant? Have you ever heard that the home team puts its players out on the ice after the away team puts its players on the ice? That means that when Dallas is on the road Guerin has to face the oppositions better defensive players, whereas at home he gets to go out against the 4th line of the other team. This means it's harder to score on the road than it is to score at home. It means you don't know as much about hockey as you think you know.

I noticed you left the goaltending out of this. I am a strong believer that in any sport that requires a goalie, he needs to be your best player. Turco stinks like Giguere's jock.

So Dallas wins the Cup once and suddenly they're the greatest team in the league?

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12-06-2003, 05:42 AM
  #19
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Lethtinen is a grossly under-rated player and he is great, I'll give you that, however I think you are hugely over-rating him if you think the stars would not deal him for hossa. If Muck offered Hossa for Lehtinen the stars would take it and run for the hills (anyone who follows hockey would no that), and Muckler would have to run with them because he would be DOA here in Ottawa.

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12-06-2003, 06:06 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan18
Lethtinen is a grossly under-rated player and he is great, I'll give you that, however I think you are hugely over-rating him if you think the stars would not deal him for hossa. If Muck offered Hossa for Lehtinen the stars would take it and run for the hills (anyone who follows hockey would no that), and Muckler would have to run with them because he would be DOA here in Ottawa.
So when Lehtinen gets viewed of a higher calibre forward who brings more value to his team, then Mike Modano, it's all ok. But when it's Marian Hossa, a seemingly less proven and not as good player, it's suddenly a farce? Where's the sense? And no I am not overrating Lehtinen, critisizing me how I overrate him is just another example of other fans underrating him, and I ain't even a Stars fan.

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12-06-2003, 07:00 AM
  #21
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The likelyhood of Lehtninen being traded by the Stars is about as high as Marian Hossa being traded from the Sens.

Lehtinen a fan favorite over there and he arguably is the most prized player the Stars have.

Yes...he's probably more valueable to the Stars than Guerin, Morrow Modano or Turco...and you'd be more likely to get any of those guys before Lehtinen.

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12-06-2003, 07:32 AM
  #22
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I've seen Rachunek's name thrown about a bit. What is the deal with him this season? Marc Bergevin has more points than him for crepes sake.

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12-06-2003, 08:31 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
So when Lehtinen gets viewed of a higher calibre forward who brings more value to his team, then Mike Modano, it's all ok. But when it's Marian Hossa, a seemingly less proven and not as good player, it's suddenly a farce? Where's the sense? And no I am not overrating Lehtinen, critisizing me how I overrate him is just another example of other fans underrating him, and I ain't even a Stars fan.
Modano a better player than Hossa, sheesh, 2 years ago maybe, not now. Modano is an old superstar who is on the decline, Hossa is a young superstar who is rising. Nuff said.

PS. It is not because Hossa is a senator, everyone who knows anything about hockey knows that Hossa is a legitimate superstar. For example look at who is #2 on the Allstar voting for Eastern wingers, this is not due to just Sens fans voting for him.

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12-06-2003, 09:16 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan18
\
PS. It is not because Hossa is a senator, everyone who knows anything about hockey knows that Hossa is a legitimate superstar. For example look at who is #2 on the Allstar voting for Eastern wingers, this is not due to just Sens fans voting for him.

I could not think of a worse way in determing a player's star status then by looking at all star votings...come on, that means dick all.

btw I do think Hossa is an amazing player

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12-06-2003, 09:56 AM
  #25
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Obviously, I am a Stars fan, so there will probably be some homerific coments here.

However, I can assure you that the Stars will almost definately never trade/not re-sign Lehtinen. Of course, if Gretzky can be traded then there are no absolutes, but Lehtinen is the most valued player on the Stars. The Avalanche could offer a package deal of Forsberg, Tangay, and Foote plus offer to pay 90% of their salaries for Lehtinen and the Stars would turn it down.

Okay, so that's a little bit of sarcasm there. But you get the point. Yes, there are more talented players in the league than Lehtinen. Yes, he's hitting 30 right now. Yes, he's been a little bit injury prone over the past few years. Yes, the Stars are struggling mightly right now.

But the intangibles he brings to the team, moreso than his definsive presence and timely goal scoring, cannot be replaced by anyone except for maybe a 30 year old Guy Carbonneau or Bob Gainey. All three of his NHL coaches (Gainey, Hitchcock, and Tippett) have called him the best player on the Stars. Every player who's played for Dallas calls him the best player on the Stars. Not because of his skill, but because of how he plays the game.

So no, the Stars wouldn't trade Lehtinen for Hossa, and they wouldn't even consider trading him for the three players mentioned in the first post of this thread. Not only do the salaries not match up, but the Stars would trade almost any other player on the team before moving Lehtinen.

And just FYI - Lehtinen has a NTC kicking in at the beginning of his extension next year, and Stars' management respects him enough that they would clear any trade through him before actually making the deal.

As for Morrow, there's a better chance at going after him, but only slightly. He's seen by both fans and management as the future captain of the Stars, and would be really hard to get. Ott, Miettinen, Kapanen, Tjarnqvist, Bacashishua, and (possibly) Daley and Erskine would all be easier to obtain than Morrow.

 
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